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Hoping77

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Tuesday, September 13th 2011, 5:38pm

Daily Routines, The Witching Hour and Sleep.

Hi All

I was just wondering if you had a daily routine with your baby, and if so what is it? I have a 7 week old and hope to start setting some sort of routine although I know it won't be kept to strictly but I think it benefits having some sort of structure to the day, for both me and my son.

I think I am starting to get one but was interested in what routines others had and if I could get any tips. I have noticed that as he gets older he finds it hard to sleep in the living room as there is too much noise and stimulation so for his daytime naps I am going to start putting him upstairs in his basket or cot if he becomes grouchy because he can't sleep downstairs and I don't want him to become overtired. Now and then he does nod off in his chair in the living room but sometimes he just can't settle so that's when I will take him upstairs as I know he is tired.

We have started a bedtime for him, which is usually bath (depending what mood he is in), bottle and bed and thankfully he goes down no problem and falls asleep within the hour of being put down, depending how tired he is.

If you could let me know how old your baby was when you started a routine and what that routine is i.e. time of feeds, activity and naps throughout the day, it would be much appreciated.

Also, your opinion on dream feeds - did it work for you and if so at what age did they start to sleep for longer after it?

Thanks ladies

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Wednesday, September 14th 2011, 12:44pm

Hiya

If my memory serves correctly at los age G could only manage about 1.5 hrs awake and would nap after about 1.5 - 2 hrs. He would wake at 7.30 - 7 ish had a feed then be awake til about 9-9.30 have a hr and so on.

Sorry its vague! I did write it somewhere, ill dig it out. I found that he was hard to settle in the living room by then as he was too noisy and if I left it too long he was over tired.

Must admit I did a dream feed too at 10.30 before I went to sleep, he was still waking at 3 for a quick feed, this was until he was about 4 months old. but that block of sleep was fantastic! x





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Wednesday, September 14th 2011, 2:19pm

Hi, my memories are a bit hazy also and it's only a few months back but DS liked to nap in his moses basket in his bedroom from just a few weeks old. It was really hard to get him down any other place although he slept in the car or in his pram when we were out. I bf so it was kind of on demand until about 8 weeks and then we got into a bit of a routine. From about 12 weeks he slept from 7pm until 7-8 am and still does. I know that's probably not the norm so maybe we've just been really lucky. From day one we've done the bath, bed, feed routine and it's worked a treat. When he was about 8 weeks we also let him have half an hour with no nappy and a lie and kick. We had little musical toys with lights and he used to follow the noise and shapes, this seemed to tire him out before the bath. I used to worry about what everyone else was doing and felt that for a few months we had no routine until I spoke to some friends at mother toddlers and they were all exactly the same. Go with what works for you. x


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Wednesday, September 14th 2011, 3:18pm

I'm interested in what people are putting in here! Our little one is only 3 weeks old, so too young for any sort of proper routine, but already I would say we are in quite a good feeding routine. She usually feeds around every 3 hours, but 4 hours at night? What is a dream feed? I like the whole bathtime routine and I think this is something which I will start as I do notice her sleeping is better after having a bath. xxx

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Wednesday, September 14th 2011, 4:34pm

Hi Hoping - such a good question to ask as Im feeling like I need to start thinking about a routine for Harrison too! Im with AG - whats a dream feed???

At the moment H is being really good at night and is having a feed about 11pm - sleeping until 4am, back down again at 4.30am and sleeping until 8.30am. No idea how thats happened but Im embracing it thats for sure. However I have started doing the whole bath, read a story, bottle bed yet as he likes to be awake from about 6pm until 11pm anyway!! However he doesnt cry or anything and we just play and have a bath etc but I think I might be overstimulating him!!! Oh if its not one thing we worry about its another isnt it!!!

I also ended up buying the baby whisperer book as I say you and Booboo talking about it in her diary!!!!

ANyway I hope wee Nathan is well and AG I hope Norah is doing well too!! Cant believe we are now on the parenting boards and not the 3rd tri!!!!

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Thursday, September 15th 2011, 12:27pm

Hi

A dream feed is when you wake to feed them but dont wake them too much (really not good at explaining), keep the lights low, change their nappy and feed them to fill their bellies.

You have to go with what feels right though, this worked for us as I was exhausted by 8 weeks, George didnt want to sleep and I realise now when I was trying to tire him out I was just over stimulating him.

Bath, massage, story and milk before bed is still Gs routine, if I dont do it he still settles but not as well. Means I get a cuddle as well which is fantastic, only time during he day he stops racing around! x





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Thursday, September 15th 2011, 2:15pm

Hi Hoping

My LO is 14 weeks old and I started with introducing a bedtime first, as you have. She gets stimulated pretty easily so finds it easier to fall asleep in the dark at night.

Daytimes, well, I think my approach us more baby led so I figured out that she can stay awake for about 1 to 1.5 hours (more if we're out...there's far too much interesting stuff going on to sleep!) so i can (usually!) predict when her next nap is going to be. It works out about three naps a day - morning, midday and late afternoon. She's a cat-napper though, I'm lucky to get her to have 40 mins.

Feeding times tend to happen in a "windows" too so for example, LO might have a bottle between 11.30am and 12.30pm. She'll have five bottles a day. I count the first bottle as the one between 3am - 4am. If it gets towards bedtime and she hasn't had her last bottle, I'll just give her a bottle and she can drink what she wants. I've not done a dream feed just because when she's sleepy, all she wants to do is sleep, but I'm thinking about trying ur by picking one of her moments where she thrashes around as the time to do it.

My routine is rather flexible, and my LO is definitely not a Gina Ford baby. One of my friends loved the strict routine, but another one found it restrictive. I've cherry picked ideas from lots of different sources and come up with something that seems to work...at the moment

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Hoping77

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Thursday, September 15th 2011, 9:07pm

Thanks for all your replies ladies. Sounds like we're all of a similar mindset. I don't want it to be strict but I just like to have a kind of plan for the day if you know what I mean.

GemH - I think Nathan is following the same routine as your LO as at the moment the longest he can stay awake for is usually is 1.5 to 2 hours so it is usually a feed, a bit of play time and then a nap - very much like the EASY method from the Baby Whisperer book. He struggles to sleep for long in the day at home but when I take him out he will sleep as soon as he is in the car and not wake up until he is back home, unless we have visited family or friends and they wake him but if I am out shopping he doesn't wake up.

I have tried doing a dream feed at about 11pm but up to now he is still waking up between 2 and 3am though the past two nights he isn't drinking much in that middle of the night feed, just a couple of ounces so I'm wondering if he will start not needing that 2am feed. When do they suddenly start sleeping through? The problem I have is I hear him stirring in the night so that is kind of my cue to go and get his bottle but sometimes I will come back up and he is back asleep. I have thought about leaving him stirring for as long as possible (he just starts making noises) and seeing if he falls back to sleep but if I do that he may then start screaming the house down for his feed and wake DH up. Not that that would be a problem mind.

Lozza - sounds like you're managing to get plenty of sleep. That's great that he sleeps for that long already. The most Nathan goes between feeds in the night is 4 hours max but as you know that doesn't mean I get 4 hours sleep as it can take up to an hour to feed him, what with winding him and then listening to him talk himself back to sleep LOL!

Thanks again for your replies.

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Thursday, September 15th 2011, 10:48pm

Hello,

I followed the Baby Whisperer EASY routine with both of mine and it was fab. Even if we were having an off day I knew how to get back on track and I could start afresh the next day.
We used to take the bottles of water upstairs to our bedroom and measure the milk powder out into a little dispenser then we didn't have to go downstairs. Ours have always had room temperature bottles so we didn't need to warm them. The only time we did was in mid winter when it was freezing and then I took a flask of hot water upstairs and used that to warm the bottle a bit. You could try that then you wouldn't have to rush up and down.

With the dream feeds, my DS would never take it so we gave up but my DD would take loads while she was fast asleep! I could lift her out her crib, feed her, wind her and put her back no probs!

My DD started sleeping through at about 12 weeks I think but every baby is different. I remember the early days when you get about an hour or two sleep between feeds!! It won't be forever!
xx

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Hoping77

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Friday, September 16th 2011, 7:26pm

Witching hours :(

Thanks Danielle. I did a dream feed last night at 10:30pm and even changed his nappy before I fed him and he was soon back asleep on the bottle. At the moment though it doesn't fill him up for the whole night. He was up at 1am but then didn't stiir until 5am, which was pretty good.

I have another question for you ladies. Did your baby have 'witching hours'? Not every day but some days Nathan will just start crying and nothing I do will soothe him. For example today, I fed him at 3:30pm, which was fine, he winded, was sick a little and then we had a bit of play time where I talk to him while he is sat in his chair or lay on his mat. As soon as I see him yawn I know he is tired so I leave him be to fall asleep but he has kept fighting it. I took him upstairs to his nursery and turned the lights off but he still wouldn't sleep and continued to cry. I cuddled him, he cried, I put him back in his chair, he cried, I changed his nappy, he was content for a bit but then cried. Whatever I do he just won't settle. It then got to 5:30pm so I decided to feed him again as he was pursing his lips and trying to suck. He almost fell asleep whilst feeding but then woke himself up again and started crying. He has remained unsettled since and DH has now taken him for a walk and when he gets back we will bath him, feed him and put him to bed.

I know babies cry but it just frustrates me when I don't know what is wrong. Well I do, he is overtired but I just wondered if this is the norm and are most babies are like this? It would make me feel better and I won't feel so bad LOL!

Just to add I use anti colic bottles and he has gripe water or dentinox to prevent colic.

I hate it when I can't soothe him. When I have cuddled him and ssshhhed him he has nodded off only to jerk himself awake about 10 minutes later and start crying. Oh and I have tried swaddling him too but he just kicks at the blanket and gets too warm. I am pretty sure he is feeling OK and not sick as is inbetween the cries I have managed to get a smile from him when he has had a brief quiet moment. He does have a bit of reflux and is on Infant Gaviscon. He doesn't seem to be in any discomfort from it, just when I wind him he whinges and is sick a bit but that seems to be easing since he has been on Gavison.

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Friday, September 16th 2011, 9:30pm

Hi again, crying for no apparent reason, yip, sounds totally normal :) My midwife said all the anti colic bottles and remedies in the world don't always work and sometimes it's just something that will go by itself. My lo was bf and he suffered terribly with wind, I wouldn't say it was colic as it wasn't for long periods and it wasn't unbearable screaming, just crying mainly after food but no real pattern. I'd say if Nathan is fed, dry, winded and showing no signs of illness he should be fine. Old wives tale - babies HAVE to cry to allow their lungs to function at their best, ?( Hmmm, not sure about that one but you never know. x


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Sunday, September 18th 2011, 6:15pm

Hi H,

Yes both mine went through a bit of that when they were tiny and I discovered that giving them some nappy off time worked a treat. They loved to be free and have a kick about and it seemed to work 99% of the time.

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Sunday, September 18th 2011, 10:21pm

Hello,

Me and Ollie dont have a set routine really. if we are having a day at home, he usually wakes up at about 7am and I do a bath then and dressed and bottle (usually takes about 13oz) then we come downstairs and play for a while or do nursery rhymes or read together then i'll put him on his matt for a while or he has tummy time then i'll go and get bits done and usually he wears himself out playing on his matt so gets ratty so i pick him up and give him his dummy and he falls off so i put him in his chair carry on doing housework or whatever. When he wakes up I make a feed (usually about 7oz every 3 hours) and do the same again. his bedtime is usually about 8pmish.
Ollie does have a few sleeps during the day but still manages to sleep all night which is great but not all babies are the same. Ollie is teething, has been for a while now, and is very wingy sometimes so has extra cuddles!!

By the sounds of it, your doing brill Hoping xx Take care x

Hoping77

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Monday, September 19th 2011, 1:08pm

Thanks for the replies ladies. He has been OK since. Well he has cried but we have been able to settle him soon enough. I am pretty sure we will continue to get random days though where he just cries and it takes us a while to settle him.

Danielle - he does like having his nappy off so we've done that and it has helped sometimes and he has stopped crying. Though he usually always pees on himself LOL! That's the problem with boys, they squirt everywhere rotf DH will sometimes take him out for a walk too if he isn't settling but we don't want him to become to use to that, especially with winter approaching.

Shelley - 13oz?! Is that for one feed? Wow, that's a lot. I think Nathan would spew it all out if I fed him that much LOL! I am kind of getting a routine now though it's not strict. He does seem to feed at certain times, well within an hour, so 6-7, 9-10, 12-1, 3-4, and then usually again at 5ish and again at 7ish before we take him to bed. He seems to like to have a nap between feeds so I let him as it makes him less grumpy. He slept loads on Saturday day and was brilliant in the evening, very content and happy at bath time and he slept well Saturday night. Some people say if you let them sleep too much in the day it affects the night sleep but up to now it is fine for Nathan.

Shelley - I noticed you posted in AG's diary and mentioned Ollie waking in the night and before giving him a bottle you would give him his dummy. I am starting to think that Nathan is only waking for his dummy as on a couple of occasions I have put his dummy in and he has nodded back off for another hour or so but then by that point he is starving and wakes up crying LOL! Did Ollie do that at first or did he just sleep through?

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Monday, September 19th 2011, 1:46pm

Hiya Hoping,

I wish there was a forum for chatting about things like this. Re the witching hours - we've certainly got them bad at the moment.For example last night Harry was fed at 9.30pm and then again at 1.30am. After the 1.30 am feed I could not settle him until almost 4am. Tried everything - nappy, wind, cuddles etc. Everythime I put him back in the moses basket he would start screaming. In the end he slept in bed with me as it was the only way I would have got any sleep. I had already treied putting him in bed with me earlier but he still screamed - so sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't - I know that's a bad habit as well but was desperate! Today he has been up since 10am and has not really slept yet (apart from about 10min nap). I find that sometimes I am feeding him, then he is awake for a few hours and then he needs feeding again before he will sleep. This doesn't make sense at all to me. Sometimes he is feeding every 3 hours and other times every 1 and a half hours. So we have no routine and I'm finding it all really difficult. Like you said I find it hard as I just do not know what he wants or why he is crying. Everyone keeps saying it will get easier....but I just keep wondering when. Hope your witching hours improve xx

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Monday, September 19th 2011, 2:45pm

This is a great thread! I hope you don't mind but I've altered the title because you're all really helping each other out and I bet there are other (sleep deprived) ladies on here who can really identify with everything you're talking about.

GemH

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Monday, September 19th 2011, 3:22pm

HIya

Aww yes the witching hour always between 5.30 and 6.30 (was near enough bang on an hour) every day without fail until he was about 4 months, nothing I would do would help, so sometimes I had to just leave him to get it out of his system, mean as it sounds as all I did was wind myself up when I couldnt settle him, even though I knew he wouldnt calm down iykwim?

Sleeping through from 10.30 is to 6 was at roughly 15 weeks, like your lo he started taking less and less at a night and then was walking out of habit so I used to leave him for 5-10 mins to see it the crying started and 9 times out of 10 it didnt and hed settle himself. I think him learning to settle himself was helpful too as he sleeps so well now (although I do wish that sometimes hed like to lie in past 6.30 but cant be helped!) x





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Monday, September 19th 2011, 8:55pm

Yep 13oz! After his first all nighter he woke for his feed at about 8am and was starving (as you can imagine!) so we gave him a 9oz bottle but he finished it and was crying so we made up another couple of oz's and he ended up taking 13. We made up 2 morning bottles for him from then on just in case and his taken 13oz on average every morning.
I do the same as your Hoping, let Ollie tell me how much sleep he wants. I dont try to keep him awake or make him sleep at different times. It just depends on what he does as to whether he wants/needs the nap or not.

I was very very lucky with Ollie, the first night he went through he woke at about 2am and i put the dummy in and he took it and fell back to sleep then he woke at 5amish and i did the same and he went off again, in the morning I got him washed and dressed and gave him his bottle, he only cry's for it when i start to get him dressed so i just make sure the bottles are ready and waiting for me down stairs so that his fed straight away and his not waiting around for the milk to cool.

Just remember, no 2 babies are the same so dont beat yourself up if you dont manage to get into the same routine as someone else xx

Ollie's had his second lot of jabs today and has been very VERY upset and teary all day :bawl: DH is at work on nights tonight and i'm worrying i'm going to have a bad night with him as his only taken 2 oz before bed...... we'll see! ;(

Hoping77

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Monday, September 19th 2011, 10:06pm

Oh I'm glad this thread has become helpful smile2 I find it comforting to hear how other mums cope with witching hours and also like to get tips on how they do things during the day.

Rocky - I really feel for you, Nathan has had days like that and it is so frustrating not knowing what they want. Sometimes when Nathan is having one of his screaming fits I can cuddle him and he will settle for about 5 minutes and then all of a sudden he will just start crying again and I'm like what have I done to upset you, I hardly moved cos I knew the position I had him in had settled him LOL! How old is Harry now? Have you read the Baby Whisperer book? I can't recommend it highly enough. It has helped me understand Nathan so much better and I have definitely seen an improvement in him though he does still have days where he will just cry for no reason but I think that is normal by the sounds of it. I assumed Nathan had colic so bought anti colic bottles and he has gripe water everyday. I probably should've got a medical opinion first but I was desperate. He now has reflux and is on Infant Gaviscon prescribed by the doctor. He brings up his milk after most feeds but not a massive amount. This is making him grumpy and upset at feeding time but the Gaviscon is starting to help. I hope Harry starts to settle soon hun. I'm sure he will.

Shelley - ah right that's why he has 13oz bless. Nathan sometimes finishes off a 5oz bottle in no time and I have made up another bottle with a couple of ounces in, which he has taken. I'm thinking he should go up to 6oz as he will be 8 weeks tomorrow but as he has reflux and brings up milk on most feeds I'm not sure if it's wise to give him more ?o(

GemH - glad to hear the witching hours is common. I have tried leaving him crying but I can't. I will leave the room but his cry can be so piercing I soon rush in to try and soothe him, even though he doesn't want me to try sometimes.

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Tuesday, September 20th 2011, 10:46am

Hi girls. Thank goodness I just found this I thought I just had a hideously bad baby. Am slowly losing the wil to live am so tired. Ross screams non stop all day and all evening. Feeding every 2 hours at the longest stretch and is just really fractious at night and I can't sleep as genus so noisy even when asleep!! The days are hideous he just cries. Had anti colic treatment. Reflux treatment, cuddled etc still cries till I feed him ending up him wanting to suck all flipping morning before he essentially passes out at around 2. Then am so annoyed and tired I can't sleep even if he does!! Can't really plan to go out or do anything other than a walk round the block. Thunk my husband thinks I have gone mad as i practically throw the baby at him when he gets home. So not especially enjoying motherhood. I was hoping those of you who have slightly older ones would say it's much better but doesn't sound like it!!
Ooh sleep I miss you.

Anyway hope you are all staying sane.

Liz

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Tuesday, September 20th 2011, 11:25am

Awww Liz, that does sound like you've got it bad. I don't really know what to suggest if you have tried anti colic stuff and anti reflux stuff. Have you tried swaddling him when he cries? I find if Nathan has one of his screaming episodes one of the following usually works in the end - taking his nappy off and letting him air, taking him for a walk, taking him out in the car or swaddling him. I'm guessing you have probably tried these though? Also white noise is good. We put the extractor on in the kitchen and just cuddle him next to it and that sometimes stops him crying and he will fall asleep.

It's awful when they go bright red and scream. Nathan was quite bad around 2 - 3 weeks, and then again around 5 weeks but it has eased loads. It's just that when it does happen it sticks in your head, moreso than the times he is quiet, happy and content, which is now more often thank god.

Nathan is a noisy sleeper too, and when he has a feed in the middle of the night and we put him back down he usually makes funny noises and talks to himself for about an hour, which keeps me awake. Even when he is in a deep sleep he breathes heavily but I must admit I do take comfort from that as I would hate it if he was completely silent. I would constantly be checking him.

Try and take some comfort in that it is pretty normal, even if it emotionally and physically draining. Nothing prepared me for a baby crying and how distressing it can be but I think it does get easier, especially when they start smiling and are focusing more on things as you can distract them from crying. For example Nathan hates being winded and as soon as I take his bottle out he starts crying and going stiff as he knows I am about to sit him up but now I have put a colourful cushion in front of him so when he sits up his eyes are drawn to it and it stops him crying and thinking about being winded. It doesn't work all the time mind but sometimes LOL!

Hope you're OK anyway xx



I have another question for you ladies - what do you do for tummy time and at what age did you start it? I have tried putting Nathan on his belly but he just lies there with his face down making funny noises and I end up laughing at him because he looks so funny. He does try and lift his head but not for long. I am also worried he is getting a bit of a flat head as he sleeps on his back all the time. I have tried putting him on his side but he eventually ends up on his back. I make a point of sitting him more upright now in his chair and have put a cushion in it, just to try and take the pressure off the back of his head so hopefully that will help.

Taking Nathan for his 8 week jabs today. Not looking forward to it I expect he will :tears:

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Tuesday, September 20th 2011, 12:09pm

Harry is 5 and a half weeks now. Had a much better night last night - and day so far!! I think because he slept so little yesterday, he must be really tired now. I have a small baby whisperer book that a friend lent me - but I'm still useless at working out what's wrong with him. I think he may have more wind that I thought so I am trying to wind him more - he hates it as well and screams when I take the bottle out of his mouth. I have nipple thrush at the moment so am expressing milk and bottle feeding. It's been a really trying time as it's twice the work as I have to feed him and then express so takes double the amount of time. I'm hoping he can go back on the breast soon - but I'm too sore at the moment.Harry has also started bringing up bits of milk after feeding - does this mean reflux?? As for tummy time...I have a mat and sometimes I ut him on it but he doesn't do much - just lifts his head about. He seems to like it for a short while though. I have also found that sometimes putting him on his tummy on my lap will help with the wind pains after feeding.

Elizmac - sorry you're having a hard time. I can totally sympathise as I also feel like I can't do much. I'm either feeding, pumping or consoling him. And in between trying to sleep but like you cannot get to sleep whenever there is an opportunity (which is not often). I'm even panicking today as the HV is coming and I would like to have him fed and asleep....but that probably won't happen and I'll look like a useless mum if he's screaming. How's the breastfeeding going? I'm having massive problems and am almost ready to give up. I have a course of tretment for nipple thrush for 2 weeks - but if it's no better after this time then I will have to give up as I am going mad and never sleeping! Hang in there as people keep telling me it get's easier after 6 weeks. Harry is 6 weeks on Friday so I'll let you know. I too (I'm ashamed to say) am not enjoying motherhood as I thought I would. The problems with feeding have totally ruined it all. Feel like I'm wishing the early time away as I'm finding it so hard xx

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Tuesday, September 20th 2011, 1:34pm

Also - meant to ask - what is everyone's routine in terms of feeding/nappies etc. I noticed that Shelley said in the morning she washes and dresses and then feeds - if I washed and dressed Harry before feeding he would scream the house down. Just wondering if I'm doing it wrong or if I could make things easier. I tend to let him wake right up (he moans for a while first in his sleep), then I quickly change his nappy (as sometimes he won't settle if I do this after a feed) and then I feed. But I must admit I don't always find time in the day to wash him. I do give him a bath most days in the eve. Could I be doing this all a better way? Do you all wait until LO's wake right up? Sorry for all the questions - just not got the hang of motherhood yt!! x

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Tuesday, September 20th 2011, 3:53pm

Rocky - Nathan wakes up between 6 and 7 usually and DH will take him downstairs (in the week) and feed him and then change him, or vice versa depending what mood Nathan is in. If he is crying that usually means he is very hungry so he will feed him first. I stay in bed for about an hour just to catch up on some sleep as I did the night shift. We leave Nathan in his PJ's as he usually falls back to sleep at about 8am for half an hour or so. When he wakes I then top and tail him and let him have a bit of naked time and I talk to him and he is usually full of smiles and tries talking back (he loves being naked LOL) and then I dress him for the day, which is usually a babygro as I prefer them as they're comfier for him, and then he has a bottle. He usually likes to feed every 2 hours in the morning. We try and bath him every evening but not always. As long as I top and tail him I don't mind if he misses a bath one night. Sometimes he will have a shower with DH. DH showers first so he is clean and then I pass Nathan to him and I will wash his hair while DH holds him. He loves it. He doesn't cry apart from when we take him out as he must get cold so we quickly wrap him in a towel and get him warm and dressed as soon as we can. You have to do what is right for you and Harry. It depends what mood he wakes up in and how hungry he is.

I was thinking of starting to bath Nathan in the mornings instead of the evenings as that is when he is at his happiest. Usually in the evenings he can be a tad grumpy and just wants to wind down for bed rather than have a splash in the bath. Not sure if that will change as he gets older. The thing is I haven't bathed him on my own yet. I always do it with DH as he holds him while I wash him. Once he is more sturdy and can sit up on his own I will then have more confidence to bath him on my own. If anyone can recommend something for them to sit in in the bath do let me know as he will have to go in our bath soon as the plastic one we have he is already getting too big for.

Rocky - do you want to continue breastfeeding? I personally wouldn't beat yourself up about it if it is becoming too much and if it makes it easier and less stressful for you then just bottle feed him formula. I never succeeded in BF because he wouldn't latch on from day 1, despite several MW's trying and I even had Little Angels call by my house and she was unsuccessful. I tried expressing but to get the amount he needed meant I would have had to express every couple of hours or so and through the night and it just wasn't possible to do that and devote my time to Nathan do everything else with him. Harry may well be picking up on your stress of trying to express and do everything else. To BF for 5 weeks is brilliant and he will have got all the goodness he needs.

Nathan has started bringing up milk too, just this past week or so. I took him to the docs and he prescribed him Infant Gaviscon based on what I told him. What scared me most was whether he can choke when he is sleeping as during the night feeds I wind him but I never know if I have got it all up but don't want to spend an hour doing it and I would get scared putting him back down but the doctor assured me he would be OK. You may want to see what your doc thinks. I'm not sure if the Gavison has helped as he still brings up milk but not on every feed so maybe it's eased it a little.

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Tuesday, September 20th 2011, 8:14pm

what a great thread and Thanks Hoping for letting me know it was here!

i've been a little worried that lydia isn't in a routine yet and she is 10 weeks old. i sometimes feel like i'm failing her in somway or just making life hard for myself. we've started with a bed time routine a week ago and Lydia gets a bath, bottle and bed between 7 and 8 on an evening. this has been working well for L and shegoes down no problems.....the big problem is my DH who gets in a mood if he gets home from work later than usual so misses seeing her for long before bed. then there was also the argument we had with dh's parents cos they got upset that if we put lydia in a routine they won;t get to see her if they want to call round after work through the week. anyway i've put my foot down and kept to the 7 - 8 bedtime routine cos i know its whats best for L and he's settling really well on her own when i put her down for the night. DH would sit with her on his knee all night if he could but i can just imagie the probs later on if i let him do that!

so apart from the bedtime ritual i haven;t managed to get lydie into a routine. i generally feed her before i go to bed (a dream feed i suppose) about 10ish and then she will go anywhere between 2 hours and 4 hours at absoloute best between feeds on a night. on a bad night i will be up every couple of hours with her on a good night i will be up every 4 hours. i think the problem is that she only takes 3 t 4 ounzes at a time and so she needs feeding more often. i BF for 2 months and she's always fed between every 2 and 3 hours and now she's on formula she's exactly the same. i don't know how ot make her go longer netween feeds if i can't get her to take more milk. i'm not bothered during the day but it would be niceif she slept for longer on a night, especially as she is 10 weeks old so i know she should be able to go longer now.

i would try and giver her a dummy but she will just not take one. cos sometimes i think she does only wake up to suckle and she only takes an ounze of milk and i think to myself that she probably didn;t need it.

i have bought the baby whisperer book that Hoping has mentioned and i do find it useful too. i haven;t read it all yet but i'm starting to try the eat-Activity-sleep method she goes by. i think L gts over tired in the evenings cos she waed up about 2pm and stays awake until her bedtime at 7 unless we are out and about when she will nap in her pram/car seat. so i need to sort that out and try and get her to nap at better times.

its really good to see how other people are doing things and i'm glad i'm not the only one not in a routine. how would u be able to feed in a routine....if your babies hungry u can;t not feed them cos its not the right time can u!!!

rocky - u are doing a great job BFing and pumping hun but like Hoping said don;t beat yourself up over it. i know what its like having an emotional attachment to BFing. i exclusively BFed for 4 weeks until i heamoraged and needed theatre so i couldn;t feed L for 16 hours. she had to have formula and my milk supply went down. afterwards i had to constantly feed her to get my milk back up and when i wasn't feeding her i was having to express....in the end i wanted to spend more time with lydia than sat expressing but it was such a hard decision. i combinations fed for a further 6 weeks but now my milk is almst gone. its very easy to beat yourself up over it but please don't. u've done a fantastic job to keep going this long. the best thing fo your boy is to have a happy mummy and that will make a happy baby. BFing isnt that important that u should let it spoil this time. haveu thought about combination feeding? it works for some people. i did it for 6 weeks but i've decided to just formula feed now. re the changing nappies - i change L's before a feed and then inbetween if she does a poo but generally its just before a feed.

elizmac - sorry to hear your having a hard time hun. it must be really exhausting and frustrating for you when R cry's. i do think otherhood is harder thani ever thought. it opens a whole heap of new worries annd even when things go right there's still something else to worry about. I sometimes worry that i don;t understand the meaning of L's crys. people used to say that u get to know your babies different cries but when i get it wrong it makes me feel like i've failed her.

anyway its great to chat to u all.
my dh has gone out tonight and L is in bed so i'm heading for an early night and to catch up on some much missed zeds.......

xxxx


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Tuesday, September 20th 2011, 10:41pm

Hello ladies,

you all sound like you are doing a great job. The early days are certainly very testing and it makes you wonder how one tiny person can make you feel like you're losing your mind!!!

A few things that I have tried with my two or friends have tried....

Liz, have you considered taking Ross to see a cranial osteopath? I know a few of my friends took their tiny babies to see one because they just could not settle them and it worked a treat. I can't explain myself how it works as I'm not an expert bit it's good. I've had it and I've taken my DS to one when he was little for his stiff neck, which led to a flat head.

With regards to routines, I followed the baby whisperer EASY plan, which I swear by but it did take me a good 8-10 weeks to get it right and to feel like I was getting somewhere. I would start everyday fresh. what ever time the first feed of the day was I would start the E (eat) then comes A (activity,) nappy change, play, sing, or even bath if you prefer to do it in the mornings) S (sleep) Y (you) sleep!!!! Sod the housework!! Then when they wake up hopefully after a 2 hour sleep they'll be ready for E again. It does work and soon enough you'll know why they're crying.

Tummy time, my HV said to start with 5 mins a day from birth. DD used to scream her head off or eat the mat!! She soon built up strength and began rolling over at about 4 months. I used to trun them over onto their tummies after their bath to dry them and that was a bit of tummy time.

Breast feeding - I tried my very best to BF both of mine and only managed 2 weeks with DS and 10 days with DD. They stopped putting weight on and I was advised to bottle feed by my very down-to-earth midwife. She told me to do what was right for ME and the BABY. If I was very unhappy then it wasn't any good for producing milk and having a happy baby. My babies settled once I was happy and I started bottle feeding. I felt as guilty as hell and still feel upset that I couldn't feed them myself BUT I have two very healthy, happy children who have had formula. Do what makes you happy, for your and your baby's sake.

I'm no expert but I've had two little ones and faced many of these issues. I am pleased to say I have come out the other side smiling!!! I know have other issues on my hands, tantrums and potty training!!!! Hope some of this has helped.
xxx

PS I forgot to say, swaddling my two worked wonders as well. I would swaddle them before every nap and bed time so they began to learn that it meant it was sleepy time. It also helps to make tiny babies feel secure as their little arms and legs wriggle about without any control and it scares them. My friend found this helpful with her baby who had colic and reflux. After feeding her DD she would swaddle her, hold up up to her shoulder and gently rub her back, never patting it or jogging her up and down as it made the reflux worse!

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Tuesday, September 20th 2011, 11:13pm

When I saw the title of this post, "witching hours", I laughed out loud because that's exactly what we called LO's evening crying sessions. They lasted from 8pm - 10pm ish until she was about 6 weeks old. She'd only settle while being walked around, and I went mad thinking that I couldn't pace up and down for hours each evening when she was a toddler. In hindsight, I wonder whether she was over stimulated by the lights we had on (even though they were dimmed) because she falls asleep easily in the dark? I'll never know for certain.

LO is 15 weeks now. I introduced a bedtime at about 8 - 10 weeks. I started off with one thing at a time. It felt far too much to get my head around, juggling and scheduling both feeds and naps. I felt less overwhelmed by concentrating on one thing at a time.

Bath time - sometimes in the evening, depending on the mood she's in. Bath time is currently for necessity to get her clean rather than for relaxing or enjoyment. She doesn't dislike it but doesn't tolerate too long. Maybe its the time of day? Maybe I should bath when she's in a far better mood in the morning? Oh, and like Hoping's babe, she loves being naked (writhing, wriggling and wide eyed!)

Tummy time - LO ain't all that keen on it, to be honest. She'll cry after 30 seconds so I do v. short stints. I'd rest her across my legs or lap with something to look at but that wouldn't (and still doesn't) always work. So, she likes to perch upright and look over my shoulder, and holds herself very steady for that. She's not really interested in rolling, but puts a lot of effort into trying to pull herself to a sitting up position. Maybe its not what the red book says should happen at 15 weeks but she's not read the red book ;)

Booboo - The only way I can work out why LO is crying is by looking at the clock - if its about 2 hours since she woke up, then I know she's tired. If its 3hrs since her last bottle, then she's probably hungry. The difficulty is when nap time and bottle time fall close together, and its really down to pure guess work. I've got to admit that until 6 weeks, I thought all cries were hungry cries, and I'd feed her thinking she was hungry. It was only when I gave her some gripe water and she burped, bringing up everything that couldn't fit in her stomach that I realised that I'd overfed her. All because I was trying to make her eat what the chart on the side of the formula box said she should eat. I'm still feeling the guilt…she had milk pouring out of her nose!

Rocky - I'm so impressed at your staying power. I've read a few of your posts in the BF forum and you've talked about giving up but you're STILL persevering. As I said, very impressed. Morning feeds - I change nappy first (why? well, in my head, I thought a meal might be more enjoyable with a clean bottom!). You're NOT doing ANYTHING wrong. Each and everyone of us is finding out about our very own individual babies, who have different temperaments. You're doing right Harry by meeting HIS needs the way that work best for you all. I really think that mums, partners and babies learn to live with each other over a period of time. Can I admit that I googled the search term "not enjoying motherhood"?. Yup. I did. At 4am when I couldn't sleep. I am enjoying it now but by jove, its been hard.

Elizmac - Gee, I'm sorry that its tough. I have found that things have improved, and I think its down to my confidence had grown in being able to predict what is wrong, and that's only because I've been clock watching, timing things. When LO learned the difference between night and day was a turning point, because she would finally go to sleep at night (she's still rubbish at napping in the daytimes, but I'm halfway there because night times are OK). I'd see her drop off easily and that was reassurance that it was possible! :cuddle
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "chillimint" (Sep 20th 2011, 11:17pm)


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Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 7:10am

:xxx: Chillimint - what you said about clock watching is so true and extremely useful in understanding what our LO wants. I am exactly the same with Nathan. I know if he has been awake 2 hours he is usually tired, moreso than hungry because he can go a bit longer for food. It is a very good indicator of how they are feeling.

I'm also with you on the bath time, he doesn't cry but I can tell he doesn't want to be in there longer than 5 minutes so we quickly wash him and then wrap him in a towel. He prefers showers with DH I think.

Can I just ask people what they would deem as activity for an 8 week old? I class activity time with Nathan as top and tailing, nappy change, or just talking to him and making funny noises. He has a play mat but isn't really interested in it yet, he seems to get annoyed by the toys dangling above him LOL! He likes his cot mobile so I sometimes lie him in there and put it on with music. Is there anything else I could be doing? I also sometimes put Baby TV on and put his chair in front of it as he seems fascinated by the sounds and colours on the screen but I feel like a bit of a bad mother sticking him in front of a TV but he does seem quiet content watching it.

One more question, my son has reflux and currently has 5oz but doesn't always take it because he is sick so may only manage 3 or 4oz on some feeds. Around 8 weeks old it says they can move up to 6oz but I'm wondering if it's worth it because it may just overfill his belly even more. What do you think? I suppose I could make up a 6oz bottle and let him decide how much he wants but I just don't want to make him more sick. He is on Gaviscon, which sometimes helps but not always.

Anyway, best dash, taking him out this morning so my morning routine becomes a bit more chaotic with trying to get ready while he has a quick nap after his morning feed LOL! We did EASY this morning but he only likes activity for about 20 minutes before he wants to sleep again, which is fine by me but he only has about half an hour or so.

Thanks for all the advice from the more experienced mums, it really is helpful.

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Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 8:59pm

Hmm I caved in and gave him a dummy today. Worked a treat to settle him down after mad screaming session. Feel hugely guilty though!! Hope it doesn't upset the breastfeeding. I hate it that books and advice make you feel so guilty just for wanting some quiet time.
We gave up with trying the routine. At 31/2 weeks we figured he us just too little so giving ourselves a break fir a couple of weeks. Just hope we can get more than 2 hours sleep in a row at some point soon!!

Hoping you can just carry on giving your normal amount if milk unless he appears hungry after a feed. I always tell patients that the guides to how much milk us very random and he will let you know if he is still hungry. If very pukey you could try giving more to him in 2 stages and burp him in between?
Glad to here boo boo you are good.
Rocky if you wanted you could give formula for a few days. But carry on pumping and just discard it so you could rake the thrush tablet if you can't get rid of it.

Happy sleep all of you. Zzzzzzz
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Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 9:52pm

hello ladies.
well i've been trying to do the EASY routine from the baby whisperer book and it is helping me distinguish between crys ect. we're following it as much as we can but sometimes if L is tired we skip the A or sometimes she will play and stay awake unitil next feed and not bother with the S!!! but i try and get back on track when i can and to say we've only been doing it a few days we're getting there.

L woke up 3 hours after her dream feed last night and then 4 hours after the next feed so at least it was an improvement on the every coupl of hours the few nights before.

elizmac - how did u get ross to take a dummy? don;t feel guilty, they can be useful if used the right way. i tried to give L one but she was having non of it. she looks at me like i'm mad..lol. i try her on it every so often but she prefers to suck her thumb. i don;t think it will upset BFing if ross is 3and a half weeks old. when i was BFing we used to give L a bottle of EBM every night from been a week old cos i wanted her to take a bottle and she never got nipple confusion. i'm sure when ross gets more efficient at feeding u'll be able to go more than 2 hours. L sometimes wakes up very often but she does have times that she goes longer too so hopefully ross will be the same eventually. my HV says L is probably a grazer so likes little and often, which is all well and good but i would like some more sleep too..lol.

Hoping - L only takes 3-4oz a feed too and it says on the box she should take more. she has more feeds than the box says though so she has the 32oz for her age but a little at a time over many feeds. i wish i could get her to take more and then go longer between feeds but i can't force feed her so i just have to feed her little and often. good questions about whats classed as an activity for an 8 week old. i'm always paranoid about that. L has only just started to pay and interest in her playgym and wasn't bothered for it at nathans age. i class cooing at her and talking as activities and it prob learns her more than toys do. it says in my baby book that even laying them on the bed as u put away your washing ect is an activity for them cos they are laying somwhere different and looking at new surroundings. i class anywhere out and about with different smells and new scenary as learning a baby something new. but as for toys, L is not really that intersted yet apart from just staring at the different colours but she'll do that at light fittings that catch her eye too! does nathan have any other toys? i have some things for L but she cant really play with them until she knows how to reach out and clasp.

chillmint - its easy to overfeed isn;'t it? i think we can have it set in our heads paranoia about them been hungry so we just like to feed them to make sure they're not. i try and give L more than less to make her go longer between feeds but it doesn't always work like that anyway. i'm like u and thought that if i started the bed time routine first them the day time thing might fall into place later. so we've only been doig the bedtime a little while so hopefully everything else will become a little more predictable.

danielle - thats my real name ;) another nod to the EASY routine. i like that if u've had a bad day u can start afresh the next. and i like what u say about the Y bit - sod the housework...if only i could let myself. i find it really hard to nap through the day and catch up on zeds. i'm with u on the BFing, its so easy to beat yourself up over it but whats important is healthy happy children. i gave myself a hard time when i had to stop and it put a dampner on things been so upset about it when i should have just enjoyed my baby.

anway i'm so glad tummy time has been mentioned...no one has ever told me i needed to do that!! i feel like such a bad mummy not knowing that. so last night i started to put L on her tum and she tried to eat the mat....lol. she is strong at lifting her head though cos i when i hold her she holds it up. more tummy time from now on though.

:xxx3:


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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "BooBoo" (Sep 21st 2011, 9:57pm)


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Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 10:17pm

Hiya,

Tummy time for Ollie has got better, his really trying to lift his head right up and i put loads of toys in front of him so that his got tons to look at. I used a V pillow the other day and covered it with a muslin (for dribbles) and he enjoyed it so we gave him tons of praise but its only for short times and i have to time it right else he goes mad and just crys into the pillow.

In the mornings i usually get up when i can hear Ollie coo-ing, I go in and put his mobile on if i think he needs it to stay calm for a bit then i quickly make his bottle up and jump in the shower then make a massive fuss of how good his been, lots of talking and kisses and i chat to him while i open the curtains and get his clothes ready then go and run his bath and he has about 5-10 mins splashing about then i get him dried and changed. by the time i come to getting his clothes on, he gets grizzly but after his dressed his bottles are ready to give to him so he has it straight away.
I always change his bum before feeding, just in case he falls asleep.

Hoping - Why not try reading to Nathan, tracing the words with your finger as you say them so he gets used to it or some nursery rhymes, ive started going to baby rhyme time with Ollie and i get to learn all the nursery rhymes and do them at home with him and all the actions too. Worth a go! What about some naked time? I've not tried it yet but have been to baby massage today and they really encourage it.
I would give the 6oz a go, if he doesnt want it, he wont take it i suppose.

Liz - I felt massively guilty too when giving Ollie a dummy but its the best thing i could have done i reckon, he only usually has it when his grouchy or ready for a nap as he uses it as a soother then spits it out after falling off to sleep.
Aww bless, 3 1/2 weeks. I was in no routine what so ever at that stage, think we started a bedtime routine from about 6weeks.

Hope you all manage to get some well deserved and wanted sleep, i'm off to bed in a mo too!

Take care all xx

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Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 10:23pm

Just wanted to say about bathing on your own (think it was h77 post) We bought a sponge from mothercare I think, it's about the size of a baby and has a kind of baby shape cut into it. We used it in the bath in our changing unit with DS lying down on it and we now use it in the normal bath and he just sits on it, it's great to stop him slipping.

You can also buy a bath cradle, again mothercare or babies r us. It's fabric on a kind of frame and the baby lies on it. When the fabric gets wet the baby kinds of sticks to it so it leaves you pretty much hands free to get on with the washing and duck playing. :happy: I have seen lots of others but these two are really good. x


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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 12:15am

Hi Ladies,

My munchkin is 6 weeks old but she was prem so still should not be here for 4 weeks.
I cant bath her every night for a few weeks yet, she certainly sleeps better after one.
Not sure how I feel about a dream feed.
Just a tip on room temp formula feeds according to the nurses. Formula is not sterile and contains bacteria so has to be mixed with warm/hot water in order to sterilise it.
We take a bottle of hot water up in a thermal travel bottle holder at night and the required formula in a dispenser.
By the time of her 3am feed the water is still warm enough to sterilise the powder and its 1 min standing in a pre prepared cup of water to cool to required temp.
Mimi does like it warm though.

I hope that come her due date I can start the daily baths and a fixed routine.
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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 10:08am

Aww taxi - 10 weeks prem, bless her xx Hope she is doing well, am loving the pic! xx

I was giving Ollie room temp bottles until a friend told me the same about the bacteria so now what we do is (for a 7oz bottle), put 3oz of boiling water in and then the 7 scoops of powder and then top up with 4oz of chilled boiled water that are pre-prepared in little bottles from the fridge which makes it nealy cool enough to give to him. I make it up about 10-15mins prior to a feed and by the time we've had a cuddle and changed his bum its at a lovely warm temp.
It was very easy to give Ollie room temp bottles (especially at night) but when i learnt about the bacteria i changed how we did them as i would hate for him to get ill and me know that what im doing could do that. I just take cartons with me when out.

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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 11:50am

That's interesting about room temp formula. For the day feeds we used boiled water that has cooled for about half an hour, so it's warm when we add the powder (or sometimes we add the powder to boiling then rapid cool if he is hungry and wants his food pronto LOL) and for the night feeds we make them up in the evening (with powder in) and put in the fridge so in the middle of the night I come down, take a bottle out of the fridge and plonk it in the bottle warmer. As it is chilled though it can take a good 10 minutes to get to a nice warm temp for him and sometimes I rush it if he is crying so it is more room temp. Is it not good to give it him like this? Although it's handy having ready made bottles in the night I'm not sure it makes it quicker because of the time it takes to warm them up. I could take the bottle warmer upstairs I suppose and then I can cuddle him while it's warming so hopefully he won't cry. Before we made up powdered bottles we used cartons and they would only take a few mins to warm up but buying cartons works out more expensive.

Last night he woke about 3am and I went and put his bottle in the warmer then ran back upstairs to cuddle him and put his dummy in, he kind of settled so I put him back in his basket while I went to get his bottle and when I got back up he had fallen back to sleep!!!! I thought well you're having your bottle now you've woke me LOL so I did a dream feed pretty much but he only took 1 ounce as he wanted to sleep. He didn't wake then till about 5:30am. I wonder if he actually needs that 3am feed now as it's been a few occasions he has hardly taken it. The thing is for him to miss the 3am feed he would need a feed at about midnight as any earlier and he wakes up more hungry and needs more of a feed.

Taxi - that is a great idea re putting boiled water in a bottle and then in a bottle warmer. I may try that and just take the powder up so I can add it when he is due a feed. I have special containers for the powder so can have it measured out already.

I have another question on formula. As he has reflux do you think the Aptimal powder for colic and constipation would help? The reason I ask is at has reduced lactose and I'm wondering if him bringing up milk is because he maybe intolerent, plus it has a thicker consistency, which I believe can help reflux. It doesn't mention reflux on the box though and he isn't constipated so I would hate for it to give him a sore tummy but I am wondering if it would help. Any advice would be appreciated.

Hopefulh - cheers for the recommendations on bath supports. Re the sponge one can I just lie him in it and have my hands free to wash him? I would put it in our bath if so as would be easier I think as his bath tub is already getting too small so I probably wouldn't have much room to splash water on him from the sides.

Shelley - I note you said you 'go in and put his mobile on' - does that mean he is now in his own room? I'm thinking of putting Nathan in his own room in a couple of weeks or so. Even though his nursery is right next to ours we would still put the monitor on and have both doors slightly open so we can hear him. His basket is getting a bit tight now plus I am hoping he will sleep better in his cot. He is in his cot now having his morning nap so is starting to get use to it. Cheers for the tip about rhymes. I have some classic children books that my aunt bought me so may start reading them to him slowly. When I talk to him while he is lay on his mat I usually say the vowels slowly or stick my tongue out, which I swear he copies sometimes LOL! His tongue pops out shortly after I have stuck mine out LOL!

Booboo - I PMSL at your comment about Lydie eating the mat. That is exactly what Nathan does sometimes and won't lift his head. I am laughing that much at him that it takes me a few seconds to actually pick him up or turn his head to the side LOL! He just looks so funny lay face down making funny noises like he is thinking why the hell have you laid me down like this LOL! I don't have any other toys yet for Nathan as not sure what to get him. He has a wrist rattle, which just seems to annoy him LOL! I don't think he fully understands yet that he has arms as it does say in one of my books that at such a young age they forget they have limbs LOL! Now I know why he sometimes smacks himself in the face :laugh:

Liz - don't feel guilty about giving him a dummy. The BW actually recommends it sometimes, as long as it isn't over used to 'dummy them up' as she says. If Nathan spiits his out I leave it as I know he doesn't want it but sometimes he cries for it if it has fallen out. It really is just a soother to him, moreso when he is ready to fall asleep but once he is asleep he spits it out. He has tried sucking his thumb a few times but can't quite grasp yet how to keep it in his mouth and suck and he sometimes misses his mouth LOL! Cheers for the advice re formula. Some books do make you worry as it says for 8 weeks give 6 ounces so I'm then thinking will he stop putting on weight if I keep him on 5 ounces. Like you say he will tell me if he wants more.

Oh I do love this thread, I love hearing how other mums do things. I am forever asking my mum friends loads of questions about their children that I'm sure I get on their nerves LOL! One thing I was surprised to hear was get their name down asap for the school you want. I think I have decided on which infant school I would like Nathan to go to so will be getting his name down sooner rather than later. I have started looking at private nurseries and childminders for when I return to work next July, even though I would love to stay at home financially we would be on a tight budget and I don't want that but I have asked to return on just 4 days a week instead of 5.

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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 12:15pm

Hi all,

Hoping - yes I do want to continue BF for now - I just think formula is such a faff with all the sterilising ang making up bottles etc. Having said that I'm having to sterilise for expressing at the moment. Went back to the clinic at Stepping Hill yest and I still have nipple thrush so I'm taking medication and still expressing. The plan is to go back next Wed and try and get him back on the boob when hopefully I'll be less sore. If it doesn't happen, then I will have to consider combination feeding as I can't keep this up much longer. If I'm not feeing, I'm pumping and there's hardly any time for sleep. PS. I have never given Harry a bath - DP does it with me assisting - I'm too scared!

BooBoo - I know how you must have flt about dropping the BF.I'm sure that day is coming for me as well and will have to deal with it. You've done a great job though after all the problems you've had. I've read bits of your diary and you've really been through it - I'm amazed you're as bright and cheerful as you are after everything!!

Elizmac - don't feel guilty about the dummy - we all need to stay sane - and do whatever it takes! Harry won't take one - just spits it out. Don't get too worried about routines. There's plenty of time for that.

Chillimint - gripe water! I have some but have not used it yet. How do I do it? I didn't want to put it in the milk in case he wouldn't drink it and not sure how to give it on its own? I think Harry may have a problem with wind so would like to try it. I thought that babies would not drink more than they wanted? Sometimes I have thought that I am overfeeding Harry as on occasions he seems to take loads - but it's been the only thing that wil settle him.

OK, so this morning Harry has been fed and winded (only ever get a couple of burps). Then he's been fine awake for about 1hr 40 and the he starts screaming again. So, eventually, when I remembered, I changed his nappy - and he squirts poo all over - like water. So I think maybe he had stomache ache. But then after trying to settle him again he starts screaming again - I tried a bit more food but he didn't take much, his body heat was fine. Anyway I have put him on my knee on his tummy and he has falen asleep. Had to do that through the night as well. Does anyone know what's bothering him? Do you think it's trapped wind or something else. Really want to move him into moses basket but if I disturb him he'll wake up and scream again. xx

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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 12:28pm

Just tried moving him to basket - screaming started so he's now back on his tummy on my knee!!

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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 1:19pm

Rocky - gripe water is brilliant for bringing up wind. Nathan has it every day but only in 6 bottles as that is the max per day I think. You just add 5ml to his bottle or if your BF you could give it on a teaspoon as it says a 5ml teaspoon. Nathan doesn't seem to notice it and drinks his milk no problem and I always get a good burp out of him after a feed, moreso than with the Dentinox that I also use (I alternate between the two).

If Harry has been awake for an hour and 40 minutes I would say he is starting to get tired hence becoming grouchy. Nathan always gets tired after being awake that long and starts flapping his arms about. If Nathan passes his tiredness and is awake for more than 2 hours that's when he struggles to settle because he is slowly becoming overtired so he starts crying, which is his way of blocking out all noise, hence why white noise can be useful in calming them. It drowns out all other sounds. When Nathan is tired I put scratch mits on his hands as he starts clawing at his face sometimes but it also settles him as he covers his eyes with his hands then like he is blocking out light too.

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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 9:44pm

Hi Hoping - I have heard awesome things about Aptimil & as soon as my LO is off nutriprem I shall be putting her on it.
Also in regard to Colic/Reflux I can not reccomend Mam bottles enough. They are self sterilising too. Best prices on Amazon. They come in pink, green, blue and purple. x

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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 9:57pm

I feel like crying now that i've found all your lovely ladies with the same questions. Was beginning to feel a little down about not knowing anything about anything to do with babies!

Our little Norah is 4 and half weeks. She has been putting on about 200g a week, but this last week she only put on 90g, so i'm on 2 hour feeds during the day at the moment, but allowing her to do her own thing at night. That works out well if I time the feeds right and generally if I feed her around 11-12, she's just up once around 3-4 and then again around 7. Some nights - she doesn't really want to go back down, but i'm now wondering if that is because she hasn't had enough milk - really not sure. No two nights are the same, but touch wood she's been going down after her feeds and sleeping, which is the main thing.

I've just bought one of those angelcare monitors. I always said I wouldn't get one, but I think i'll sleep better when DH is on his 2 weeks offshore. Does anyone know if you can put them in a moses basket? I know you need a bit of wood supporting it. Does it go under the mattress? Really should read the instructions, but haven't had time!!

My worry is that she is depending too much on the boob for settling. She doesn't very often go down either really sleepy or already asleep. Also, finding it really hard to tell if she has wind trouble or if she is hungry. Think that may have been where we went wrong last week - I thought she had tummy trouble (which she did as well) when really she probably needed more food. I also have a problem sometimes when I put her down to settle, she does for a very short time then she's up again. Tonight I just left her - she wasn't upset and she did fall asleep again. I also think there may be an element of overtiredness as well - the other day she was up for ages as I couldn't get her to settle in her bed.

I always feed Norah before changing her because she'd scream the place down if I didn't! She used to hate getting her nappy changed, but is much better now and loves her baths because the water is much warmer for her.

My health visitor told me to give Norah tummy time from the first few weeks. We haven't done it that often to be honest because I feel a little cruel doing it as she just lies there struggling!! A friend of mine is a child nurse and she told me that if your baby lies on your chest and lifts their head away from you, this is just the same thing and as effective. Norah does this all the time and loves to lie like this on me after a feed and is getting stronger, so I don't feel so bad.

The only routines we have really are that every morning I change her into proper clothes and every night she gets bathed, a good feed and then into her sleepy suits, then bed (although sometimes she won't settle) I know it is bad, but I never put her down fully awake in her moses basket -should I be doing this? Again, this comes back to the fact that I don't think she'd settle without the boob. We also have a good night routine with sleep going on, but during the day we just go with the flow.

So many questions..... its so great to know we can all ask each other. I met with a group of mums today who all have 1 year olds and they looked at me as if I was stupid when I asked some of the things I did!! Think they've forgotten quickly what it is like in the early days. I'm loving it though! xxx

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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 10:01pm

Hoping - yep, Ollie is in his own room now :) His doing really well. Like you, i started putting him in there for naps, also i was putting him in there while i had a shower with his mobile on and he would sometimes fall asleep in there.
About the tongue - he probably is copying you hunni, if you keep doing it enough he will give it a go so carry on!

Think we are going to have to put Ollie up a little earlier, his getting so tired that going up at 8, he only takes about 3oz and falls off but is so moany and screams so much that he works himself up so think we'll try 7.30pm and see how he goes x

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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 11:17pm

Thanks Shelly & AG my monitor just slips under the matress. I have a Tomy digital and sensor pa. The Angelcare ones are awesome x

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Friday, September 23rd 2011, 11:12am

Hi everyone,

I have a question about gripe water which I started using yesterday. I think Harry's problem is trapped wind and the gripe water did seem to help a bit. But he has been sick after feeds a few times (he was before sometimes) and his sick now smells. (Hoping....I know you said something about Nathan's sick smelling so you thought he had reflux - well could it be the gripe water? Only because Harry's sick has not smelt until I used the stuff so I know it's that causing the smell. Just a thought. I think you were right about the overtiredness but he just won't seem to drop off!!) Anyway, I think it was Chillimint that said she was overfeeding and then used gripe water and her LO was sick. Does this mean that the gripe water stops them from eating too much and when they've had enough they puke it back out?

AG - welcome to this thread - it's good to chat to people in the same boat isn't it? Sounds like you're doing OK. I know what you mean about LO settling on the boob. I'm expressing at the moment because of painful thrush but when I was BF it was the same for me. I wouldn't worry about it too much ye as Norah is still so young she probably needs that comfort. My HV told me that you can't spoil them at this age so just go with the flow. I too find it difficult to know whether Harry is hungry or has wind (or something else??). You're doing well changing Norah into proper clothes. I always feel embarrased whenever I go anywhere as Harry is always in babygrows - just don't seem to have time to put real clothes on...and on the occasion that I did he wee'd when I changed him!!

Taxi - so glad your LO is doing well. you must be so relieved. She looks gorgeous. Gonna have a look at them Mam bottles!!

Also I'm wondering if there is anyone reading that has expressed and bottle fed? I'm finding it difficult to estimate how much milk to put in the bottle as sometimes he needs more than I've put ready and other times he doesn't drink it al and some gets wasted. Anyone have any experience of this?

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Friday, September 23rd 2011, 11:42am

Hi Rocky - does his sick smell of that burny acid taste you get in the back of your throat when you have indigestion / heartburn? That is how Nathan's smells. He has been on gripe water since about 3 weeks old (I didn't give him the full amount though as he was under a month old) and he has only started being sick since about 6 weeks old so I'm not sure it is the gripe water ?o(

It really makes me paranoid when he brings up his milk, which is after most feeds, despite having Gaviscon. I contemplated moving onto Aptimal Comfort milk but I have read that Gaviscon can thicken his formula slightly and the Aptimal Comfort does too but by thickening it too much means he may actually choke on his sick, whereas now it is very water like, occasionally it looks a bit cottage cheese consistency but not often. He doesn't seem to be in too much discomfort really so I think his reflux is mild. He has no problems lying down and doesn't seem in any pain between feeds.

Re the overtiredness, Nathan is the same. Usually starting from 3pm he will fight his tiredness and then cry and it can take a while to soothe him and several attempts at trying different things e.g. white noise, cuddling etc. Even if I take him upstairs and turn the lights out, pull the blackout blind down, and cuddle him or lay him in his cot he still cries, despite me making it very quiet for him and cutting out all visual stimulation. I just have to keep trying different things and he eventually gets too tired he falls asleep or is due a feed so that settles him.

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Friday, September 23rd 2011, 3:17pm

Rocky - With regards to the overfeeding, I think LO was sucking something that was in her mouth, she's a really sucky baby anyway (fingers, thumbs, dummies, nipples and teats, she has a go at them all!). She'd suck and milk would come out so it wouldn't take long for her to take an extra ounce. Then she regurgitated it back up. So, I suppose it was impossible to overfeed her as she wouldn't keep it down. I only worked this out because when I let her take 3oz instead of 5oz (like the formula box said), after feeding she seemed more content and spit up far less. Small, more frequent feeds definitely suit her better.

As soon as she was sick after the gripe water, I thought that it was making her sick. (Argh, first I overfeed her, then I poison her! I'm rubbish at this!) It was just regurgitated milk, not vomit. She'd just burped and brought up milk. The ingredients in gripe water are sodium bicarbonate and natural oils (dill, I think) so I'd think that its a digestive aid that helps bring up wind.

And wasting milk, yup, all the time! Must be soul destroying when its EBM though, after working hard to make it and express it. I was antibiotics for a couple of weeks, so to try and keep my supply up while I finished the course, I expressed and has to chuck it down the sink :(

AG - I can't bear to hear LO protest about being on her tummy! It is lovely when they peer at your face when they're on your chest. I tried to put LO down in her moses basket fully awake and sssh-pat her to sleep (a baby whisperer way, I think?), but she cried and got herself more and more worked up. After three nights I thought it'd be better to try something different. I'd hold her in a BF hold (even though I'd stopped BF'ing) in the dark which relaxed her and made her sleepy. Then I'd put her down, which worked a treat.

Shelley - I'm thinking about putting LO in her own room, and was wondering how to do it. I'll use your idea. Thing is though, she doesn't nap upstairs that often…hmmm…maybe i should start that first? How did the 7.30pm bedtime go? Thats the time that we put LO to bed.
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Friday, September 23rd 2011, 11:02pm

Hi Chillimint, its lovely to hear from you and that you and your LO are doing well x
Might be worth putting her in there just for a play to get her used to it, probably the best way to start i reckon.

7.30pm bedtime didnt happen today, maybe tomorrow! Ollie missed a feed so i was trying to squash his feeds in but then had to try and strect him out for an hour past his feed time to take him to 7.30pm but he got so worked up that i gave in and fed him but then took him up at about 8.30pm and he started screaming the house down and took so long to feed!!!!! I'll try again tomorrow and make sure i stick to my times!!

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Saturday, September 24th 2011, 12:46pm

Not really having a great couple of days! Yesterday during the day was fine, but from around 6:30-midnight she screamed on and off constantly wanting the breast and not wanting to settle to sleep at all. I actually think she had some wind trouble, but it was hard to know when she was constantly wanting more breast. I tried everything. I actually think she takes the breast for comfort too. I've tried a dummy for when I know she can't be hungry, but she won't take it and just gags on it. Once she went down then we had a great night. Our night time routine is pretty good I think, but we are no-where near getting one in the daytime! She just won't settle in the day at all. I think I may have to try putting her down in the nursery and set up the video monitor. This morning she was up at 7 and has only slept for 40 minutes since then, but I know she is really tired.

I have a whole new found respect for single mothers. It really is hard doing things on my own while DH is away. I didn't really realise until I came back from visiting a friend yesterday. Her mum has been there with her for nearly 3 months and she is able to do things like get a proper shower. My house is a tip and when she is so demanding of me I just can't get anything done.

Also set the house alarm off twice this past week, so not in the good books with the security alarm company AND i've dyed a lot of my nappy liner blue! Tomorrow is a new day and i'm going to try and read through this thread again later on to see about the whole routine thing for during the day to see what I can do. Going to take her out in the pram to see if she will sleep. Feel like such a bad mummy today. Just can't seem to get anything right. xxx

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Saturday, September 24th 2011, 4:24pm

Hey AG - you are NOT a bad mummy at all! Everyday and night is different. I've had some awful evenings with Harry when he won't settle but then the next night will be OK. Harry has wind trouble as well. I've tried gripe water which I thought helped at first but have stopped it again as I'm not sure if it was making it worse. Wish I could solve the wind. Harry also has some strange feedings. Some days like clockwork - every 3 hours. Then other days he wants feeding every hour and it's like all you do is feed and change nappies. You will be feeling worse at the moment with DH away as you are having to do everything. My DP has had a lot of late nights this week with meetings etc so I've been on my own for long periods of time and it is really hard. But people do keep reassuring me that it gets easier. So hang in there. You're doing a great job and DH will be back before you know it! Don't worry about the routine - just go with what Norah wants for now. I found I was stressing that much about a routine that i was getting myself really worked up. But I've come to the conclusion now that I don't need the stress of that at the moment. Take care xx

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Tuesday, September 27th 2011, 4:33pm

Hi everyone

How are you all? I'm loving the sunshine :cheeers:

AG - How's Norah? When is DH back? x

Rocky & Liz - how are you two getting on? Are things getting any easier? x

Shelley - hope you're enjoying Centre Parcs, you have glorious weather for it x

Hello to everyone else.

Well things are getting easier with Nathan. He is having more good days now, which is a relief. If he has a whingey few hours it usually starts around 4pm so we just take him out for a walk to try and send him to sleep, which usually works. If he is grumpy when we get back we usually skip the bath and just feed him and put him to bed. I actually think he likes going to bed because as soon as we put him in his basket he stops crying pretty much straight away and talks himself to sleep within half an hour.

We took him to get weighed today and he is now 13 pounds and 4 ounces! The lady who weighed him said he is 'textbook and perfect on the chart' smile2

How are people getting on with dream feeding? Nathan still wakes up about 4 hours later for a feed, albeit a small one. I wake him at about 10:30pm and feed him, which he usually stays asleep for so it's great as it's quick and he hardly needs winding. He then stirs around 2am so I put his dummy in and that keeps him settled for about another half hour or so but then he makes noises again so I go and get a bottle before he starts screaming. He is only taking a couple of ounces at the most though for that feed. He then wakes about 4 hours later, though this morning I fed him at 2:30am and he didn't wake until 7:15am. He stirred around 5am, I gave him his dummy and he fell back to sleep. I just wish he would skip his 2am feed.

Does anyone do cluster feeding? Is so what is it exactly? The BW suggests feeding at 6pm and again at 8pm then do a dream feed at about 11pm, which supposedly fills their bellies so they sleep through. For those who have babies sleeping through what times do you feed them and how much?

My step mum in law keeps asking if he is sleeping through and goes on how her grandaughter did from 6 weeks and I'm like FFS not all babies are the same. Nathan is still very young and growing so he probably still needs his middle of the night feed, though I am hoping it won't be long before he does sleep longer than 4 hours and doesn't wake between midnight and 6am.

Anyway, hope you're all OK.

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Wednesday, September 28th 2011, 4:36pm

Hiya Hoping,

Glad to hear that things are now easier with Nathan - wish I could say the same - but you're a few weeks ahead of me I guess!! Brilliant news on his weight gain - sounds like he is doing really well so you must be pleased. Re cluster feeding - I think Harry does this sometimes all by himself as in the evenings he just won't settle and we feed him and then try everything to settle him (including more food which he refuses at first). We change his nappy, cuddle and rock him etc....and then about an hour later - in desperation - try him with milk again and he takes it. This can happen a few times in the evening so maybe this is cluster feeding. Dreem feeding is totally not happening. In fact I've had an awful few days (and nights). I just have not been able to settle him. For example last night he was awake from around 6.30pm and kept feeding bits. Some of the time he would be OK and then he'd suddenly start screaming. Everytime I tried to put him down he would start screaming again. I think he has colic. In the end I slept with him on my chest (I know that's bad but I desperately needed a break by then as it was 11.30pm). After 2 hours I managed to put him in the moses basket. Then we had a repeat of the same this morning - but I was that desperate for sleep that I did it again. I'm a very light sleeper anyway so I'm being very careful when I do this (sleep with one eye open!!). Ignore your step mum in law. I reckon Nathan's still too young to sleep through. I'm not expecting it for a good while yet.

Been back to the breastfeeding clinic today and managed to get Harry on the breast again - but still very sore. So going to try and continue doing a mixture of breastfeeding and expressing. Im in a dilema now as well as the breastfeeding person at SH says I definitely have nipple thrush (and I'm being treated for it), but saw my doc yesterday yet again (who is female and has breastfed herself) who thinks it's not thrush but eczema. So doc has given me diff cream. When I told the breastfeeding person today she said it's not eczema it's thrush. Anyway the doc has swabbed me for thrush and hopefully I'll get the results by Friday. The issue though is that the new cream says 'not to be used if there is a fungal infection as it could make it worse'. But I have started using it as I'm desperate for things to get better. So who would you trust - the breastfeeding person that sees lots of women with problems or the doctor that is better qualified to diagnose problems? All I can say is it's a good job prescriptions are free for now as I seem to need something new every week!! Well, enough of my problems. Hope evryone is well. Amazing Grace - how are things? Hope you are managing a little better on your own. Elizmac - not heard from you for a bit. Has the dummy done the trick then or are things still difficult? xx

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