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biggreeneyes

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Monday, August 9th 2010, 10:37am

In agony

I have the most excruciating pain when I breastfeed. Sometimes it's not as bad as others but when bad it literally rduces me to tears and makes me cry out in pain. The pain is mainly in the aereola and it's sharp razor blade type pain when B feeds. Like lots of tiny bits of glass are cutting it. It's just killing me.

Went to docs last week and she said it might be a blocked duct and told me to massage it with olive oil. This did relieve things slightly but certainly didn't cure it.

My latch and positioning is all fine and its not my nipples that are sore. After feeding the boob can then throb and aereola feels burnt and itchy :tears:

I am off to docs this arvo again as I read about the pAin of thrush on the la leche leAgue website and it described my pain to a T. It also said that obvious thrush symptoms aren't always obvious and the symptom is the pain. So I am going to ask doc to treat us for thrush in the hope it is and tx will cure it. I have been battling on with bf but not sure I can carry on with this pain but don't want to give up bf :sadface:

please any advice is very welcome xx


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Monday, August 9th 2010, 11:11am

Hiya honey,
So sorry to thear you are in pain, it does sound like thrush to me as well, you have my sympathy, I clearly recall sobbing in pain with every feed. I notice you are no longer online but there is some info here http://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/p…et_Feb_2009.pdf (not FZ endorsed link) about treating thrush and getting the doses right, if you can print it or give your GP the link then you have a better chance of getting the right treatment. You and baby both need treating. Get some painkillers too as the treatment can take UP TO a couple of days to take effect, I found paracetamol and ibuprofen certainly took the edge off it and they are safe to take whilst bf. If you can also get to a breastfeeding group and have an expert check your positioning too then thats worth doing as a poor latch can be painful too. Make sure you wash anything that might have milk on it with some white vinegar in the machine to kill the fungal spores, so bras and muslins etc... Well done for persevering, I really hope you can get the treatment you need to keep you feeding. I promise you it gets comfortable and nice again once your thrush has gone.
X

compley

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Monday, August 9th 2010, 11:18am

Aw BGE, I am sat here reading this, and really feel for you. It does sound like thrush to me. I had it last Dec, when I was bfing L, and it is absolute agony, I couldn't believe the amount of pain I was in.

GP's seem to vary in their helpfulness/knowledge of thrush, so firstly I hope yours is one who has a good undestanding of it. However, there is a really good leaflet produced by the breast feeding network, about the treatment of thrush. I've just tried to get the link in here, but can't, but if you go their site, and type thrush into the search bit at the top, the link will come up. The leaflet is really good and has the info about the treamtment/dose you need to effectively treat thrush. GP's can sometimes seem to be reluctant to diagnose thrush, and/or to treat effectively. At first I was given treatment, but not the correct dose (after already being told it wasn't thrush). After going back, armed with the leaflet, I got the loading dose you need, then a 10 day course of oral anti fungal treament, at the appropriate dose. This is what is needed to really get the thrush cleared. You and your DS also need some gel, to apply to his mouth, and your nippples, even if there is no outward signs of thrush (L had no signs of thrush in her mouth). I did have to go back three times in total to get the right treatment, so I'd say if you can get a copy of the leaflet printed out for this arvo, take that along, and be forearmed!! You may need to get a bit firm, hopefully not, but I know a few of us on here have had to have repeat visits, or having to get a bit 'insistent', so hopefully arming you with all this, will mean you can get sorted today!

I was told by the NCT breastfeeding line that the diagnosis is often in the pain, as you have said, and your description of the pain sounds very much like thrush.

Whilst you are at the GP also make sure you get some good pain relief, which will help you get through this, and help make bfing a bit more manageble. I was taking ibuprofen, and as the pain was so bad, my GP prescribed some co-codomal.

I do remember them saying about the treament not being licensed for use whilst bfing, but such a small amount can pass into the breastmilk. My GP discussed this with me, but basically, I needed the treatment, did not want to give up bfing, and having read the info/BFN leaflet, felt I was making the right choice, although tbh when you are agaony from thrush, there isn't really much choice, you need what you need, I think!

I also found massaging the affected breast helped to clear it a bit, as I was struggling to feed from it, and it got a bit lumpy. I also used a heat pad, it seemed to give a bit of a soothing effect.

I posted a thread on here, and got some helpful tips from other ladies: In so much pain!

I really do feel for you, and will be thinking of you today, and hope you get the treamtnet you need, from the GP. CArrying on bfing through is so so hard, but once I got the treamtnet the pain did start to ease, and the pain killers did help.

Take care, will pop bakc later to see how you got on xxx



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Monday, August 9th 2010, 11:20am

Cross posted with Mrs J, so some repeat info in my post! x



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biggreeneyes

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Monday, August 9th 2010, 3:21pm

Thanks for your replies and for understanding the pain i am in, having been there yourselves :hugs: I haven't been to the doctors yet - the appointment isn't until nearly 5pm.

I have read up on the links you gave me, and unfortunately my ink in my printer has run out, but i have written down the website if i need to bombard the doctor with evidence if they aren't playing ball!

I soooo hope it IS thrush so i can get treated and breastfeeding can become 'normal' and a pleasure, because my experience so far started with delayed milk, due to blood loss and then a paralytic ileus, then cracked and bleeding nipples after a horrible healthcare nurse made me feed all night for 5 hours non-stop even though he wasn't latching on properly and i still had no milk and was really ill!! I think there were a few days in between where it felt normal but just hard work and all the time, but i can;t really remember that, as now i have been in pain for about a week or more :sadface:

I shall pop back later and update with what happens. But just want to say thanks for your support as it does feel like it is all in my head sometimes!! But i know it isn't!

blowkiss


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Monday, August 9th 2010, 4:18pm

Hope you don't get any hassle from your GP Greeny. If you do, give me his number and I'll ring him and shout at him! Will pop back later and see how you got on. X

compley

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Monday, August 9th 2010, 7:29pm

Yes, I'll be ready to give your GP a few stern words too, if you get any problems!....Seriously though, hope you got on ok xxx



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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "compley" (Aug 9th 2010, 7:31pm)


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Monday, August 9th 2010, 7:29pm

Hi hon - I do hope you got on ok with your GP this afternoon :hugs: I've no experience of thrush but a friend of mine had a battle with her GP who wasn't very helpful and who didn't treat the baby which seemed silly. She also got advice from her HV about it too who encouraged her to return to the GP and seek further treatment for both of them.

Also, probably irrelevant as not sure if you've been expressing yet, but my friend had been expressing whilst she had thrush and had to ditch all milk she'd expressed or which she'd frozen in case of passing it on again.

Fingers crossed your GP was understanding and as you say, bf can become normal and without pain :smile:

blowkiss

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Monday, August 9th 2010, 7:37pm

BGE, I just wanted to say how much I admire you for BFing. You've had an incredibly difficult time of late, and coming from someone who quit BF very early despite being so determined to do it... I just bow at your feet.
I hope your GP helped and you are a lot more comfortable very soon.
Still bowing,
Mavis
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Monday, August 9th 2010, 9:52pm

Just had to reply. I had Deep Tissue Thrush... and without any exaggeration I found it more painful than childbirth! It was hell. Bells and Fi's Mum were great support in advising me that it could be DTT and after a battle with the GP I got tablets and after a 10 day course I felt like a different person and BF became a joy. 3 months later (Dylan now 6 months) I'm reluctantly starting to combination feed in prepration for going back to work. I really hope you get the help you need and well done for not giving up!!!

Let us know how you get on.
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Monday, August 9th 2010, 11:31pm

Hope your GP was useful today Greeny. I know from experience of thrush that they can try to fob you off with ointments and gels so I very much hope you've been given systemic treatment. xfingers





biggreeneyes

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Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 1:41am

Hi all

ok so the doctor was ok about giving me fluconozole but he has given me 7 days worth of itand it's the lowest dose of 50mg. Having re read the bf network leaflet it says loading dose of 150-300mg then50-100mg for10 days, so I'm now worried that the dose might be ineffective?

Billy, omg it is soooo painful isn't it. I'm pleased you went on to feed pleasurably and hopei can too.

Mavis, thank you, I hope it's Bern worth petsevering and the pain goes soon. I have definitely thought lately with my bf troubles that there'd be no way I could have done it with twins!!

I guess I have to give it a few days before I mightnotice any changes?

Xxx


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Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 8:00am

Hi BGE,



How are you feeling today?

I'm glad you got some treatment from your GP, although I will say that I was given a similar dose to you, but did have to return, with the leaflet, and ask for the loading dose, and a higher treatment dose, as the original course didn't shift the thrush completely. Did your GP also give you gel, for you and DS?



xxx



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biggreeneyes

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Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 12:59pm

Hi laura,

hmmm that's what I'm worried about! Did it improve a bit with the lower dose?

Xx


goodgreen

April 09-IVF-BFN :sadface:
Oct 09-ICSI - BFP :happy: - Little boy born on 14/07/10
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Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 7:12pm

Hi BGE, it did improve things a bit, but I didn't shift it completely, as I was nearing the end of my first course of treatment, I was still getting the deep pain in my breast, so then went back to the GP, armed with the leaflet!

How have things been today? xxx



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biggreeneyes

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Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 7:32pm

Laura did you have the sharp painin aereola when feeding?

Things were feeling a little better today until last feed when I was in agony again and reduced to tears running down my face during the feed :sadface: and now it's pretty sore. There seems no pattern to when it's more painful than others?!

:xxx:


goodgreen

April 09-IVF-BFN :sadface:
Oct 09-ICSI - BFP :happy: - Little boy born on 14/07/10
June 12-ICSI - BFN :sadface:
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Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 11:06pm

Hi BGE,
Aren't some GPs unbelievably ignorant about breastfeeding problems!?? You definitely should have had a loading dose, and a 10 day course of fluconazole - thrush can be very persistent.
Fi has had problems with thrush like yours. Sometimes she had stabbing pains in her breasts even between feeds. The GP she saw first was very reluctant to prescribe fluconazole, but I insisted. You can read my original thread - "thrush in ducts" (in March) Unfortunately Fi needed more than one course of treatment, but it did improve. Did you get nystatin for your LO? The gel treatment is not recommended for babies under 4 months. You should continue with your nipple treament and baby's treatment for a week after symptoms have gone, otherwise it can recur.
Hope you get it sorted soon. :hugs:

biggreeneyes

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Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 7:02am

Hi Chris,
do you think I should go back to the doctors with leaflet in hand and demand higher dose and more fluconozole?

My poor boobs kill this morning and The aereola are all puffy.

B also is fussing at the breast on and off and squirming which I thought was wind but perhaps it's the thrush then.
He has been given nystatin 3 times a day.


goodgreen

April 09-IVF-BFN :sadface:
Oct 09-ICSI - BFP :happy: - Little boy born on 14/07/10
June 12-ICSI - BFN :sadface:
Oct 12 - ICSI - BFP - followed by mm/c (blighted ovum) :sadface:
April 13 - ICSI - BFN :sadface:
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Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 8:22am

I've made a decision!

I've taken the remaining tBlets (250mg) as a loading dose and am going to go back to gp this afternoon with THE leaflet and explain what I want. Hopefully they'll agree.

Have to do something as can't go on like this. Especially as b is feeding all the time and pretty unsettled all evening and half the night.

I can't imagine bf being nice or pleasurable :sadface:


goodgreen

April 09-IVF-BFN :sadface:
Oct 09-ICSI - BFP :happy: - Little boy born on 14/07/10
June 12-ICSI - BFN :sadface:
Oct 12 - ICSI - BFP - followed by mm/c (blighted ovum) :sadface:
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Aug 13 - ICSI - BFN :sadface:
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Greeny's trying for another little froggie diary!

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Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 10:50am

That's a good idea BGE, refuse to leave until they sort it out!

I know you can't see it now but it can, and will, be a nice experience you are doing so well in persevering.


ICSI BFP DS1 born Nov 09
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biggreeneyes

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Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 3:01pm

Damn print cartridge is dudd and I can't print the leaflet.

Aaaaggghhh


goodgreen

April 09-IVF-BFN :sadface:
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Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 5:49pm

Woohoo! The doctor gave me prescription for highest dose of drugs!! Now let's just hope they work now!

The pain seems to peak around now 5pm... Keep fingers crossed that things start to improve xfingers

xxx


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April 09-IVF-BFN :sadface:
Oct 09-ICSI - BFP :happy: - Little boy born on 14/07/10
June 12-ICSI - BFN :sadface:
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Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 6:22pm

SOOOO glad you've got the proper dosage now!!

Right, there are a few things that you must also do. Thrush is a pig to get rid of and you HAVE to knock it on the head now because it can linger on for months.

Wash all of your bras at 60 deg

Cut RIGHT down on bread and anything else that contains yeast

Cut RIGHT down on sugar as thrush bugs just LOVE a sugary environment!

Get yourself some acidophilous tablets from the health food shop and take a max dose. You can try actimel type drinks but they're full of sugar and the good bugs get digested quickly so they're not nearly as good.

If you wear breastpads you must change them often and try not to wear them so much (they hold moisture to your breast and even dry ones with encourage perspiration (bugs love moisture too). Go topless if you can (but close the curtains :snigger: )

If you use dummies throw them away and replace them. If you use bottles throw the teats away. You can sterilise them but if there are tiny cracks the bugs will live on.

Drink plenty of fluids and take paracetamol. The end if the pain is in sight!!





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Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 6:58pm

Really glad you've got the right treatment. Hopefully you will soon start to feel better. I did the things suggested by Bells, was determined to try and shift it for good! And after taking the correct dose, I did manage to get rid of it for good.

Really hope you start to feel more comfy soon xxx



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biggreeneyes

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Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 7:27pm

Awww thanks bells and laura blowkiss


goodgreen

April 09-IVF-BFN :sadface:
Oct 09-ICSI - BFP :happy: - Little boy born on 14/07/10
June 12-ICSI - BFN :sadface:
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Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 8:16pm

Glad you have got the right treatment at last. Shame it took 2 visits to your GP but maybe next time your doc will give a struggling mum the right dose straight away. Also sounds ike you are feeling much more positive, great stuff. It WILL get easier, honest. X

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Saturday, August 14th 2010, 9:49am

The doctor did print off the leaflet and keep it so perhaps he will. however on leaving he did say..."some people find the pain goes away and others say it doesn't" so that was helpful! But then he may have been giving them the lower dose?

I am still in pain..i took the loading dose on Wednesday morning and now its Saturday. My nipples are so sore and tend that the feeling of clothes on them is a killer and even holding Ben to my chest hurts especially if his arms are moving around. i just can;t imagine not being in pain and i'm feeling tearful again. :tear:

How long is it meant to take til it clears up if t is going to clear up...i am so close to cracking up :sadface:


goodgreen

April 09-IVF-BFN :sadface:
Oct 09-ICSI - BFP :happy: - Little boy born on 14/07/10
June 12-ICSI - BFN :sadface:
Oct 12 - ICSI - BFP - followed by mm/c (blighted ovum) :sadface:
April 13 - ICSI - BFN :sadface:
Aug 13 - ICSI - BFN :sadface:
Jan 14 - ICSI - BFN :sadface:
Oct 14 - FET - BFN (surprise surprise) :sadface:

Greeny's trying for another little froggie diary!

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Saturday, August 14th 2010, 10:36am

Not sure exactly how long Greeny, I can't really remember. I think after 2-4 days of treatment things should be improving. Are you still taking the painkillers? Can you get someone to check your positioning too and just make sure you have it spot on? When DS comes off the breast after a feed, is your nipple round or is it a bit squashed? If it's squashed it could be that its not far back in his mouth enough and he is compressing it against his hard palate. This will lead to a 'chillblains' type situation where your nipples are in effect starved of blood and if its happening with each feed, the pain can continue all the time. I rang the breastfeeding network for some advice about thrush treatment and the woman I spoke to corrected my latch over the phone, she was very good. Their number is 0300 100 0210.

To answer the question you PM'd me, bubs should use the gel for the same amount of time you are on treatment, otherwise you will keep reinfecting each other.

You are dong so well to keep going. Massive pat on the back for you. I hope the pain eases for you soon.

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Saturday, August 14th 2010, 1:27pm

You should've noticed some relief in two or three days but give it a few more days. I know exactly what you mean about not being able to imagine being painfree. I had thrush for months with my second child without it being treated properly. Even after successfully breastfeeding my first child my judgement was so clouded by the pain and lack of sleep that I almost accepted that it was never going to change.

However, it WILL change. You have to do all of the things we've mentioned. Keep treating your baby's mouth, keep taking the medication, keep taking painkillers, avoid bread, avoid sugar, take acidophilous tablets, wash your bras, try to keep your nipples dry and exposed to as much air as possible and importantly, check your latch.

Keep us updated x





biggreeneyes

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Saturday, August 28th 2010, 6:24pm

Hi

just to update that I have given up bf this week :sadface: I was in such pain and had gone to another bf support group where I thought I had solved the problem as the pain was not too bad, but as the day went on the pain returned more with each feed and I realised it was only less painful because I had been expressing for a couple of days and hadn't fed from my boobs.

Tuesday morning I was in such pain again feeding I realised I couldn't do it any more. I was dreading ben waking up and wanting to eat and therefore not enjoying him as I should be. I aS back in tears again and had gone back to the doctors for yet another course of fluconozole and thenhad a massive argument with my dh.

Understandably he was not happy with Ben taking more nystatin and me upset all the time and it was Tuesday morning after excruciating pain I realised I had yo make this tough decision to stop bf, for the sake of all 3 of us, our family. We should be enjoying this time and instead we have been miserable, all conversation consumed with bf and it's pain etc and arguments and more crying!

It has been such an emotional thing for me to get my head around as I wanted go bf so much and give ben a great start in life, plus I loved the closeness and the connection it gave us. I struggled through the weekend with much lovely support from mrsj and bells (thank you) and cried and couldn't give in to not bf. My week in hospital after c-section complications, we fought off the bully midwives that tried to force us to bottle feed ben, as we wanted to bf and didn't want that to stop him being able to suck at tbe breast.

So, it has felt like I've failed him at only 6 weeks, but I honestly could not keep going the way I was. I am trying hard not to feel guilty and feel like I might be judged by others about switching yo formula at such a young age. I guess it just wasn't meant to be like this. I didn't realise bf would be so hard :tear: But I have to say I persevered through many difficult circumstances and didn't give up easily so I am now going to try and move forwards and enjoy ben as I should. Already I am enjoying him more and that is so important.

Thanks for all your advice. I'm just sorry I couldn't get through this and carry on bf-ing.


goodgreen

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Saturday, August 28th 2010, 6:28pm

Awwww [zx127]

Six weeks is great and no, you didn't give up easily!!!

I hope the thrush is under control now. Even if you're not feeding it's important that you get it sorted out as it can go on indefinitely left untreated.


xxx





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Saturday, August 28th 2010, 6:39pm

You did well to try it and keep going for so long sweetie. My sister was in exactly the same position as you, but didn't last nearly as long as you did - well done you! She said exactly the same things - it was hindering her enjoyment of the baby because she was in so much pain. She was so much happier (and so was her baby) once he went onto bottles because he was getting what he needed and she wasn't in pain. You tried and persevered, now enjoy little Ben. lots of love xxx

biggreeneyes

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Saturday, August 28th 2010, 7:12pm

Thank you Bells and Amazing Grace...it means so much to hear you say these things as guilt is a terrible eating up all consuming thing and i am trying my hardest not to let it do that to me.

blowkiss


goodgreen

April 09-IVF-BFN :sadface:
Oct 09-ICSI - BFP :happy: - Little boy born on 14/07/10
June 12-ICSI - BFN :sadface:
Oct 12 - ICSI - BFP - followed by mm/c (blighted ovum) :sadface:
April 13 - ICSI - BFN :sadface:
Aug 13 - ICSI - BFN :sadface:
Jan 14 - ICSI - BFN :sadface:
Oct 14 - FET - BFN (surprise surprise) :sadface:

Greeny's trying for another little froggie diary!

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Sunday, August 29th 2010, 1:45pm

Oh Greeny, have just been reading this and wanted to send you a great big :hugs: Sorry I don't have any advice but it sounds like you've done the right thing to me, if you are all happier then that has to be more important than anything else.

Hope you are feeling better today and things start to improve for you from here on in.

See you soon!

Lots of love

Gracie

xxxxxx






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Freya Grace arrived on 6/11/10 - Perfect at 6lb and 1/2 oz

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Poppy Ann arrived on 13/10/12 - Born at home weighing 6lb 12oz

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Duffymoon

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Sunday, August 29th 2010, 10:43pm

Hey Greeny

Guilty should not be a word in your post my love! Proud, determined, brave......these are words you should use!

Seriously, you've done incredibly well and gone through so much! You've become a new mum which is hard enough for most, let alone with additional difficulties you've had.

You've given Ben the best start in his little life and every day you've bf has been a bonus. Be super proud of what you have achieved!! :yes:

blowkiss

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Monday, August 30th 2010, 11:13pm

belated congratulations!!!!

omg not been on this site for a very long time!!! in fact last time you were still pregnant and having a bit of a tough time of it!!!! so wanted to say huge congratulations on the safe arrival of baby Ben, having had a swift catch up of your thread just wanted to say don't beat yourself up over the BF enjoy your little man, step back think what u went to get him then think what the heck if BF is not working try something else to make u and your little family happy. So pleased for you and huge congratulations again if not a little late in coming xxx

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Lisa xxx

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Thursday, September 2nd 2010, 10:22pm

Hi BGE

Sorry the bf did not work out for you. I sympathise totally. Although I did perservere it caused HUGE rows with me and DP. He accused me of being selfish and continuing to bf out of some need to prove myself rather than what Dylan needed. At the time i was adamant that this was not the case but in hindsight I know that I was so worried about not doing things 'properly'. I think you have to do what is right for your family ultimately. Do not feel guilty! I know how much pain you were in and like everyone else has said you should feel very proud at how far you got. I hope things are going well for you and you are enjoying your little one!!! x
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Thursday, September 2nd 2010, 10:45pm

Hey honey,

I'm late coming to this, but just wanted to give you huge :hugs: too. I can really empathise with your emotions Greeny having also been so determined to BF and having to give up earlier than I wanted. At the time it was a source of enormous shame and guilt for me. Now, it's faded into one part of this incredible journey we're taking. I'm proud ( as you should be!!!) I BF as long as I did and I know that when I stopped it was the beginning of my PND lifting, of us bonding and me enjoying William. It doesn't bother me in the slightest now that I stopped because there are so many decisions, choices, paths and options every step of the way and you soon get consumed with the next thing and then the next lol! I truly hope that as Duffy says you can see what you did achieve which was amazing and celebrate the next stage of family life now.

You're such a beautiful person and wonderful Mummy hon, never doubt that. [zx115]


nn
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3rd DE IVF July 2009 BFP!
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