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Charity

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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 12:48am

MMR?

Hi,

My friend is undecided whether she should get her toddler vaccinated with MMR because of the controversy regarding a possible link between MMR and autism...I had a look at the NHS website about mmr-thefacts and it's basically saying there is NO link between MMR and autism and other diseases. But can we trust the NHS...?! What would you guys recommend?

Charity XXX

p.s The website is: http://www.mmrthefacts.nhs.uk

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Charity" (Jul 19th 2006, 12:48am)


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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 5:05am

I am going to get my DS vaccinated.

My neighbour had mumps as a boy and is now sterile thanks to that. My husband had measles as a kid and now has no hearing / is almost totally profoundly deaf thanks to that. I have seen children deformed due to their mothers having rubella when they were pregnant with the child.

I am going to get my DS vaccinated - to me, personally, the benefits outweigh the risks.

Saz

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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 6:58am

I am too. My DH had mumps as a kid, hence our need for fertility treatment. Also, there have been so many studies now and not one has found a link.

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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 7:27am

hi

my little girl had her mmr she did contract mumps recently but it was really mild thanks to the mmr


take care love zoexxx
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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 7:58am

My DD had hers.
Me 27 DH 35
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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 8:05am

I am too but having them done separately privately, cost about £140.00 per baby!! to scared austim risks & don't want to worry
haven't got to think about that yet thou.
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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 8:20am

i am going to get DD done too, especially with me going to be travelling alot soon to visit DD aunt and uncle in the country that have more problem with mumps and rubella.

and there is not a link yet to mmr and autism

Rose

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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 8:20am

I really beleive that the benefits FAR outway any posible risks. There has been NO reassuring evidence to suggest any link with autism or anything else. The reason that there has been so much anecdotal evidence about autism being diagnosed following MMR is due to the fact that Autism is generally diagnosed at approx 18 months ish, which is coincidentally the same age as the MMR Is given.

My ds will be vacinated.




This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rose" (Jul 19th 2006, 8:21am)


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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 8:25am

WHat I dont understand is why the NHS is so against seperate vaccinations....I would def prefer seperate vaccinations....




Rose

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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 8:36am

I think its prob due to cost (as per usual with the NHS budgets).

I was also under the impression that seperate vacs are given on different occasions- correct me if i'm wrong. IF this is the case then i think it would be a concern that the gap between vacs put the child at continuing risk from the conditions not yet vacced against.(if that makes sense)





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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 8:54am

I am having DS done as I too believe the risks of catching measles etc far outweigh the risks of the vaccine. There was a report recently on the news which said that there was a measles epedemic due & that a couple of children had died because they had not been vaccinated.

I too had measles as a baby but had the MMR so it was only mild.I wouldn;t want to take the huge risk of mumps with a baby boy either.

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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 9:12am

Callum had the vacination and Gregor will to

xx
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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 2:40pm

I was sceptical that it was due to cost but after doing research the actual MMR vacine has been proved to be more effective than single vaccinations. Also you have to research where your vaccination came from if you go for private single vacines - research has shown that there are some unscrupulous clinics being set up and that single dose vaccines have not provided immunity, so some children are unknowingly unprotected and some parents have had to go with an MMR in the end.

The daily telegraph did this article recently:-

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xm…7/03/hmmr03.xml



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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 6:06pm

Isnt it only 6 weeks between each of the 3 if you have seperate so you can have measles before you would have the MMR?? DO boys need RUbella (sorry to be so naive but I am still info gathering)




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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 6:15pm

Everyone needs to have Rubella as boys can get it & pass it on to any girl or woman that hasn't had the jab. It may be worse for the woman to get Rubella but as with mumps being worse for a man they still vaccinate girls too.

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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 6:24pm

So no rush for boys to have it then so long as they have it as a child...unlike the measles which is important that all children have early??




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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 6:25pm

My two will be having the MMR. xxx
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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 8:04pm

You can till get shingles from mumps so it's advisable to have it regardless, the disease can still be passed on as mumps so it's not just your child you have to consider.

Sorry to get on my soapbox about this but I caught chicken pox at a wedding at the age of 22 as did 2 other friends. The poorly bridesmaid was too poorly to be at the wedding but her parents took her to the evening do. I just hate to think of any pg woman who might have been there without knowing she was pg.

Luckily for me I didn't get it too bad my my 2 friends were really poorly with it. X(

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Wednesday, July 19th 2006, 8:26pm

I ummed and ahhed about it, put it off and changed my mind for years. None of my older family believe in vaccinations as a result my Mum wasn't vaccinated.

34 years ago my Mum had just given birth to a stillborn son and found herself pregnant again. She contracted rubella and in her fragile state was convinced by doctors that she needed a termination of pregnancy because they told her that her baby would be deformed and brain damaged. If only she had been vaccinated!

When I found out I was pregnant she told me that I had never been vaccinated so I had to make a trip to the hospital to be tested for immunity to rubella. I spent a few weeks frightened in case I caught it.

Now, she's STILL against vaccinations and managed to sway me to stay away from them but I went ahead and had them for my two. The consequences of not having them are too awful, not just for your child but for anyone they come into contact with.





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Thursday, July 20th 2006, 5:01am

IM not against vacccinations, quite the opposite in fact, just concerned re the controvercy.....the only disadvantage I can see is that the ideal delivery of all 3 single vaccines is up to 6 months....but even then they can be safely delivered within 6 weeks of each other. Certainly my local private hospital offers the same strain single vaccines that are offered on the NHS to those babies that have to be given the single vaccines (yes it is done on the NHS if they have to!!!!)

I too wasnt inoculated against rubella but had a test done when I was in my 20s that proved I was immune but then also had back up checks done loads as standard for IVF....all confirmed natural immunity (had measles as a child)

Im just trying to understand pros and cons of single vaccines .....its not an all or nothing choice (if you can afford the £200 cost for private adminsitration that is)



This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "tinkerbell" (Jul 20th 2006, 5:04am)


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Thursday, July 20th 2006, 7:29am

This is a subject that always raises controversy.

I estimate that in the 2 1/2 years I've been in my current job I've given approximately 100 MMR vaccines. All those children are fit and healthy and developing normally. Also I've met and worked with hundreds of GPs and practice nurses who wouldn't hesitate to have their own children vaccinated with MMR. I have absolutely no doubts that its a safe vaccine and my baby will definitely be having it. Also MMR is used all around the world so theres tons of safety data available to support its use.

Single dose vaccines are probably just as safe, they're not used as often so theres less data, and I'm afraid I've not read much of it. The problem with the single vacines is that we would have to see babies 6 times instead of just 2 to complete the course. This is fine with responsible sensible mums such as everyone here, but as I'm sure you know, there are a lot of parents out there who 'forget' to take their child for their vaccines, or have a drug or alcohol problem, or have different priorities. This means we would miss huge numbers of babies, who would be unprotected, and would also loose the all important herd immunity we get when the majority of people are vaccinated. I think that more research needs to be done on single vaccines and more support needs to be available to parents who want them.

My own personal opinion is that we are very fortunate to be in a position to have this debate because we have forgotten how serious these diseases can be. Imagine the rush if a HIV vaccine became available tomorrow, because we are all frightened of the disease. Measles is just a frightening a disease but it doesn't worry us because we don't hear of it as often.





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Thursday, July 20th 2006, 7:55am

We can always trust you for a a good balanced argument hon......the single vaccines were given for measles and rubella before MMR was introduced so there is good data on this...mumps is the one where single vaccines havent been used much......

I think the biggest issues faced are those of

1. repeat vaccinations but I think you can have the repeat MMR even if the first vaccinations were single so that helps on the forgetful/neglect ...also its possible to have a blood test to check immunity to see if the repeat vacs are actually required as often apparantly immunity is good and they are not always required.

2. Vaccines....as the govt no longer licenses the produvtion of the single vaccines in the Uk all vaccines have to be imported..obviously pre MMR these vaccines were produced locally.......some not so well controlled foreign manuf and Uk clinics can provide vaccines which are not the same strain as the MMR and also which contain nasties such as mercury.......as the NHS does have to offer some babies these single vaccines it must be possible to ensure that the right vaccines are used privately...certainly my local private hospital does ensure correct strain, top grade suppliers and top grade transport chain.


LIke anyhting else if the MMR was the ONLY viable option then the decision is made for you....and whislt I agree that evidence is low and controvercial. ..I will continue to info gather to help my decision and if I can confirm that there is no real disadvantage to the single vaccs then will go that route..if however I find that there are issues with the single vaccs (beyond the extra 12 weeks delay until all are given) then Iwill go the MMR route.

Like you say Mrs J..how fortunate we are to be able to even have this debate!!



This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "tinkerbell" (Jul 20th 2006, 7:58am)


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Thursday, July 20th 2006, 7:32pm

I was fully prepared to go for single jabs but having done loads of research and I am now completely comfortable that MMR is the correct thing for my DD. I am only thankful that in my area there is good take up as I worry that between now and when DD can have the MMR she may come into contact with an unvaccinated child with one of the illnesses.

Apparently the numbers of immunisations has fallen significantly in London - for that reason we are steering well clear of the city until DD has been immunised.



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Friday, July 21st 2006, 8:26am

Primrose
One of the reasons that the MMR is given at 13 months and again with the pre school booster is for convenience. I think its actually licensed to be given earlier, I'm not exactly sure what age off the top of my head (I'm not in work) but if you are concerned speak to your GP orpractice nurse and I'm sure they can do it earlier. She can certainly have the second dose earlier, there only needs to be 3 months between doses. We had a recent mumps outbreak in a local school so all the nursery children had theirs early.





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Friday, July 21st 2006, 8:35am

I think tthe guidelines say it can be given between 12 and 15 months?????





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Friday, July 21st 2006, 10:01am

Both of my boys had the MMR and they are absolutely fine
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Friday, July 21st 2006, 10:49am

Also working for the NHS i would encourage ALL parents to get their child vaccinated, we have had 2 cases of measles in the last 2 days and this will now spread around all the children in our care.

We never had an issue until about 3-4/5 years ago when the trend was not to vaccinate due to potential risks.

We have also had cases of whooping cough where the child was not vaccinated.

I understand that parents have the right but when you see how ill these children are/have been it is all down to them not having the appropriate vaccinations offered to them.
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Friday, July 21st 2006, 11:11am

oh yes - I had whooping cough as a child - about two weeks before I was due to get the vaccine

to date I still suffer terrible chest infections and get repeat wheezes when I get bad colds :(

anyway, mrsj raises an important that we SHOULD still be scared of these diseases... another example - my previous maid's little girl caught tetanus. her jaw froze. the doctors gave her a 20% chance of survival. she was only 9 years old. if she had had the vaccine she wouldnt have caught the disease.

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Friday, July 21st 2006, 2:17pm

Thanks Mrs J I will certainly look into having them earlier.

What really annoys me is people that say 'well the incidence of measles, mumps etc is really rare now and if all the other children are vaccinated then we don't need to bother' I just think that's a really selfish attitude.



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Friday, July 21st 2006, 6:08pm

Here here Primose..I agree..it is soo irresponsible but also so very stupid........the reason why theses diseases have been kept at bay is because of immunisation.....I see no justification for parents not vaccinating....whether single or mmr...it should be done.....and timely!!




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Thursday, January 24th 2008, 9:18pm

HI all,

I think i need to reopen this debate, I could do with Advice
Boys MMR request came today for me to book appiontment they will be 15mths.
Is it still classed as linked to autism and if so what age to thy diagnose Autism and is it best to wait till after this age.
Also is Autism the only side affect???
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Thursday, January 24th 2008, 9:23pm

There is no link between autism and MMR

It is just that they actually started diagnosing autism at all!

Mumps could leave your boys sterile so is it worth it?

Z had his MMR and no problems
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Thursday, January 24th 2008, 9:29pm

R had hers too. There is no definate link, and these illnesses are so severe.

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Thursday, January 24th 2008, 9:39pm

so what was all the hype about????they have had all there jabs so far with out question but its just with mmr there seems to be negative things said.
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Friday, January 25th 2008, 8:20am

Quoted

Originally posted by 1xbaby pls
so what was all the hype about????they have had all there jabs so far with out question but its just with mmr there seems to be negative things said.


Aarrgh I've just typed a big long reply and then DD hit a button and it all disappeared. I will try and re do it later. In the meantime check out http://www.mmrthefacts.nhs.uk/ this website for info.





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Friday, January 25th 2008, 10:50am

Quoted

Originally posted by 1xbaby pls
so what was all the hype about????they have had all there jabs so far with out question but its just with mmr there seems to be negative things said.


In the early 1990s the vaccines were carried in a fluid that contained a compound of mercury, in quite franklky, highly toxic doses. It was this compound that was found to be the probably cause of brain damage to a significant proportion of children who had specific vaccines from specific manufacturer's which lead to the fluid being banned from 1996 onwards.

So, yes, the scare was real but is not valid anymore.

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Friday, January 25th 2008, 12:07pm

Personally H will be having the MMR.

The illnesses the MMR vacinates against can be very serious.

Also, personally for us, dh caught mumps from his younger sister, when he was 16, which caused mumps orchitis (inflammation of the testicles). this caused permanent shrinkage to one of his testicles, and alot of worry for us when we started ttc, particularly as we had a SA carried out, because of his history, which came back very poor/abnormal.

I also thought the study that was carried out, which caused all the controversy regarding the MMR, was conducted on a very small group of children, and I thought I heard on the news recently that the Dr who condcuted the study had been discredited for some of his work (trying to remember back now, so please correct me if I have got this wrong!)

Also the time the MMr is given coincides with when autism may start to be diagnosed in a child, which I think caused some of the confusion/concern around the vaccination, and they study that caused the controversy about the MMR.



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Friday, January 25th 2008, 12:28pm

The hype in this country was because a doctor called Andrew Wakefield was doing research into the causes of autism. He found that autistic children sometimes have the measles virus in their stomachs (so do lots of other children) and suggested that the MMR virus could be the cause. However it has since come to light that his research was funded by a company who makes seperate measles mumps and rubella vaccines and because of this, his study has been discredited and The Lancet which published the orignial study has said it would not have done had it known about the funding issue. In addition to this there have since been several larger better studies which completely disprove any link between the MMR vaccine and autism. Autism is now better diagnosed than in the past so there has been an increase in cases but in countries which have changed their vaccine schedule and don't include MMR (not because of Wakefields work), there has been no corresponding drop in numbers of children with autism.

Mercury preservatives in vaccines have now been completely phased out, in recent years they have only been present in very small amounts which are extremely unlikely to be harmful.

My own opinion which is based on medical literature, speaking to GPs, nurses and parents, is that the vaccine does not cause autism, colitis or overload the immune system or any of the other stories you may have heard. I didn't hesitate to vaccinate DD and I won't hesitate to have her second dose in a couple of years, or to vaccinate any other children I may have. I also wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to other parents.

One of the reason we can have these debates in the UK is because we are in the fortunate position of having forgotten how serious these diseases can be. Mumps can and does cause infertility in males, several of FZs members are here as a result, but mumps is also a major cause of meningitis which can kill. Measles can kill or leave a child deaf, blind or at risk of a condition called subsclerosing pan encephalitis (?sp) which causes dementia. Rubella is not so serious for the child themselves but it can cause so much misery by harming unborn children if its caught by a pregnant woman. We are seeing a return of measles because of the drop in uptake of MMR as aresult of the hype. Personally I'd like to see Wakefield struck off, one child has already died of measles in recent years.

Here endeth the lesson!





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Friday, January 25th 2008, 12:37pm

DS had the vaccination, and no problems.

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Friday, January 25th 2008, 12:57pm

Thanks all you have helped my worries subside.

I will book them next week. x x
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Sunday, July 13th 2008, 9:01pm

MMR jab

J had his MMR jab last Tuesday. He absolutely screamed the place down - thank god that is the last one till he goes to pre-school. He hates needles and I absolutely hate holding him when he gets them.

Anyway, all seemed well until today up until late afternoon. He just went really hot, he has got a temperature for which I have give him calpol and he just wanted to sleep. He fell asleep in my arms which he never does - he just wants to get down and play normally.

The poor little thing. I put him to bed about 6.50 and he went straight off to sleep.

Has anyone else had similar symptoms after the jab. The nurse did tell me that about 6/10 days the measles part of the jab will set in and he could get some symtoms.

Just want him to get better


XXX
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Sunday, July 13th 2008, 9:32pm

RE: MMR jab

OH Poor J

isnt it awful what our little ones have to go through at such an early age, especially when they dont understand whats going on

E-M is due her mmr vacsine soon, she had her booster last week,

when she had her first set of injections last year, she suffered with a high temp, and screamed the house down, we just sponged her skin with teppid water to get the temp down and gave her lots of water to drink and calpol

if J's temp gets too high then call the docs hun, best to be on safe side

hope little J is feeling better tomorrow

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Sunday, July 13th 2008, 9:36pm

Its a normal antibody response honey. It is horrible when they are poorly like this but its a good sign that the vaccine is working. Treat it with calpol and ibuprofen and don't worry if he doesn't want to eat so long as he takes fluid and has at least 6 wet nappies a day. The fever can sometimes come and go over 3 weeks. Other side effects are a rash or swellign around his neck, niether of these reactions are very common but they are nothign to worry about and will disappear on their own. Much better that he is a bit poorly now then risks getting one of these horrible diseases.





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Monday, July 14th 2008, 12:22pm

perfectly normal - he's getting three sicknesses in one small dose so of course he will feel poorly for a day or so

& dont worry about the vaccine either - it wasnt a problem with the vaccine, but it was a problem with the (mercury based) carrier fluid which has now been stopped.

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Sunday, July 20th 2008, 9:20pm

RE: MMR jab

Thanks for your replies girls. Been unable to get on-line for a week computer been playing up!!

J was great when he woke up on Monday morning and seemed to be doing just fine. Then on Thursday I noticed a rash. On Friday decided to take him to the GP as it was all over his legs and spreading on his back and chest. The GP said the rash was related to the MMR jab. She said it was a good sign that his body was reacting to the jab and it was his body's way of fighting it.

Over the weekend he hasn't been too good. He was OK Saturday but today has been a nightmare. He has been very clingy and whingy and his rash is very faint on his legs but is quite bad on his arms and upper body - but not on his face.

The GP said it will be part of the measles vaccine and unless he gets a cough or sore eyes not to worry. I'm paranoid now!!!

Just want him to get better. We are going away in 2 weeks and just want him to be OK.

God why do they have to have these horrid injections ;(
Gilly Me 37, DH 38, DH low sc 1st ICSI, July 2006 OMG :BFP: Born : 26 May 2007 bab22 Lilypie Third Birthday tickers

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Sunday, July 20th 2008, 9:47pm

Owchi not nice, can you use Camomile lotion or anything to help clear it up??? & Paracetamol for pain & Temprature
Its Horrible when they have a cold but I can imagine how stressed you feel, but all you can do is as Gp says and check for cough/sore eyes :sadface: Hope it passes very soon x x xHugs x x x
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Sunday, July 20th 2008, 10:25pm

RE: MMR jab


Quoted

Originally posted by Gilly2
God why do they have to have these horrid injections ;(


Because the short-lived side effects far out weigh the risk of not having them.

I have copied this from an earlier MMR thread, I hope it helps



Quoted


Advice for Parents following Measles, Mumps and Rubella Vaccine

You have protected your child against 3 unpleasant and often serious diseases.
Most children are fit and healthy after the injection.
A reaction to the measles vaccine can occur 5 to 10 days after immunisation and last for 24-48 hours. Your child may be hot, miserable and of their food and some children may develop a rash.
2-3 weeks after the vaccine, some children develop a slight swelling on one or both sides of the neck as a reaction to the mumps component

These symptoms do not mean the child is infectious and they will settle down very quickly.

What To Do
If your child is feverish you can help reduce the temperature by:
§ Giving paracetamol sugar free liquid or ibuprofen sugar free suspension as directed on the bottle. Older children will be able to tolerate paracetamol or ibuprofen as directed on the packet.
If the temperature does not reduce in 4 hours, repeat the dose.
If the temperature does not reduce after 2 doses of paracetamol or ibuprofen seek medical advice.

In addition the following will help reduce the temperature:
§ Offering frequent cool drinks, do not worry if children are not hungry ,they will eat again once they are feeling better.
§ Checking the room temperature in not too hot or too cold.
§ Checking your child does not have too many clothes or bedclothes on. Never try to sweat out a fever.
§ Not allowing them to shiver as this will increase the temperature further.

§ At the injection site a hard red raised lump may appear and often takes a while to disappear. This is normal. Do not squeeze the lump, leave it alone. Do not cover with plasters, allow the air to get to it as this assists healing. Carry on with normal bathing and swimming but dry well afterwards.
If this does not help or you are worried, seek advice from your doctor or ring NHS Direct on 0845 4647


And some previous threads

MMR?

MMR - cough/ cold

MMR



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Monday, July 21st 2008, 12:44am

thanks Eeyore - saves me getting on my soapbox

Ladies - please read these MMR threads - you're not the only ones nor the first to have these fears. They are perfectly understandable, but ultimately groundless.

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Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 9:39pm

RE: MMR jab

Thanks so much for all your replies.

J has been much better since Monday, the rash has gone now and he is much much better.

Thanks again

XX
Gilly Me 37, DH 38, DH low sc 1st ICSI, July 2006 OMG :BFP: Born : 26 May 2007 bab22 Lilypie Third Birthday tickers

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Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 12:10pm

RE: MMR jab

Hi G

I am so glad J is better

E-M was supposed to go for her MMR this morning , but i cancelled it, she has had a cold and bad cough, and very sore nappy rash, i want her to be 100% before she has them

Thanx Eeyore for the threads they are very useful, at leaste i know what to expect now when she has her injections
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