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bubble

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1

Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 5:26pm

Any advice for turning an Occiput Posterior (back to back) baby?

My baby is OP which I know can cause 'challenges' in labour, especially with back ache (and unfortunately my back has caused me problems before after various injuries).

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions for ways in which I may be able to help baby to change position before labour? (It's also on the right side and is apparently 4/5ths engaged - the same as at 36 weeks). Is it too late now? Does being OP mean that they may not engage as well/as quickly? If they don't change position are my intentions for a natural home birth going to be far more difficult to achieve?

Sorry for all the questions. :O
Any advice gratefully received :smile:

x

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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 5:36pm

Hi Bubble

Sorry to hear this but just to tell you that when I went to that home birth meeting the hosts had a back to back delivery at home.

She had a birthing pool and I remember her telling me about rotating her hips?? Don't know why though. Anyway it took a long time (2 days or so) but baby turned in the end.

Good luck hun

Px
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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 5:40pm

Thanks P. Just found some info on the homebirth website and it seems all is not lost - just more difficult.

x

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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 5:46pm

An occipto-posterior position baby should not impact on your planned home delivery. However as you said it "can" cause a more prologed labour.
Basically- in most cases the babies head is facing towards the mothers back/side, which means that the smaller,rounder part of the head fits snuggly in the back of the pelvis, allowing it to descend and rotate through the pelvis.
However in an OP position this means that the occiput (the hard lumpy bit at the back of the head can "sit " in the curve of the pelvis, and not descend as quickly or effectivley, nor put enough pressure on the whole cervix. This (can) cause a slightly more porlonged labour, and as you say give backache/pain as it's the pressure of the occiput that you can feel.

In many cases, the baby will rotate either prior to, or during labour; but some babies don't rotate, and are born looking up at the roof!. There is no indication for you to cancel your home birth. I would suggest you get on your hands and knees as much as possible, and yep rotating your hips can help create alittle more room in the pelvis to encourage him/her to rotate.
Good luck, I'm sure you'll be fine!





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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 5:47pm

If I knew the answer to that question then I would not have had a c-section. Of course, for me, C did not engage at all and when it became urgent he be born ASAP there wasn't an option to have an induction. If your little one has engage despite being OP then there is no reason you can't have a home birth as long as your MW is comfortable with it.

BTW - I read about a technique called inversion after C was born and they reckon it helps for breech and OP babies.
Basically have your DH standing next to you - you should be kneeling on your bed or sofa - you ask DH to support you as you get your head to touch the floor and then lift your hips as high above your body as you can - essentially you are doing a head-stand but with some of your weight supported by your knees on the sofa. Hold the possition for a few seconds and then come down. They say you should do this several times a day till bubs turns as you want it to do.
Personally, I think it could be a bit tricky and even dangerous to attempt this esp when you are 38 weeks or so. Despite that feeling I would probably have tried it in my desperation if I had known about it before C was born...


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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 6:02pm

It's good to hear that you should still get your homebirth. Hope he/she turns for you soon though xfingers




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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 8:04pm

Get on your hands and knees, swimming on your front, has your yoga teacher any ideas? DON'T sit on your bum on the sofa for long periods, or in the car.





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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 8:12pm

Thank you!

Just done almost an hour of down dog/hands and knees stuff in yoga. And DH has suggested I scrub the kitchen and bathroom floors tomorrow. I'm so desperate I'll do them! I've found some other good tips on the homebirth website as well. I might try that headstand as well Rene if I'm feeling brave! I've got a different yoga class with my NCT leader tomorrow so I'll pick her brains as well.

I just keep on reading about how much more painful it is and how it can prolong labour and that's freaking me out a bit. But apparently OP babies are more likely to be overdue so that gives me a bit more time to help it shift (maybe!).

It's silly - but it's really annoyed me. I've been going to yoga twice a week, swimming regularly and going to aqaufit. I've been the most active of all the girls in my NCT class yet this happens to me. The girl who is having an elective c-section next week has a baby in a perfect position :rolleyes:

x

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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 8:45pm

Try not to focus on the pain thing...the vaguely good news is you have nothing to compare it to anyway so you will never know if it's more painful than a normally presented delivery. Do you know whether your placenta is anterior or posterior? More likely if you're placenta is anterior apparently!

At least you know, so as you say, you've got time to try to move it now (I wish I'd known :rolleyes:!)

Cmon baby bubbs move!!!

P x

P.s. A girl!!! Awkward from the beginning lol
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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 9:08pm

Bubble, DD1 was OP and I was induced so contractions started straight away with no opportunity for natural endorphins to kick in. I coped for around 16 hours with just a TENs machine and yes it was painful,but as Philippa says, I had nothing to compare it to so I can't say if it was worse than if she had been facing the other way, and it wasn't unbearable pain. I am not a person who normally copes with pain, the slightest headache makes me reach for the paracetamol, but this I felt I could handle. The pain only became unbearable when I was forced to lie down so they could monitor me and I had to take off the TENS machine. Also I didn't really want to be induced in the first place so there were psychological reasons for it to be more painful.

Your situation will be completely different, you won't be induced, you will be in control, you will be at home, you will have gone into labour spontaneously so all the natural pain relievers your body produces will be working, you will be mobile. You are better prepared thn anyone I have ever known and have all the self hypnosis and yoga skills to help you cope. Its not too late for your baby to turn round, but even if he/she doesn't, it will still be a great birth.





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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 9:29pm

Hi Bubble

When we went to our parentcraft classes the midwife there said there was no way i would be allowed to have a back to back baby born at home :sadface: i guess each area is different.

When i had my mw app last week, she couldn't tell if he was breech and back to back. She couldn't decide if it was his head or his bum she was feeling!

She said that back to back is a more prolonged and painful labour, which can in turn make mum tired maybe resulting in more pain relief needed.

And she said that the older generation hardly had any breech births, as they were always on their hands and kness scrubbing floors and steps!

I have also been on all fours, swimming, scrubbing floors, as if he is breech, i want to do my best to turn him. I was really dis-heartened when she told me that last week, as i too was (am) looking forward to a lovely, relaxing home-birth.

I have my next app next week and if she still isn't sure, they will send me for a scan to check his position. She said if he is breech, they can try and manually turn him.

My sil also had my neice who was back to back, she said it was bloody hard work and had an epidural but they didn't need to use the ventouse or forceps!

I don't want an epidural or c-sec! NO!

Hope we both get the home-births we want! xx

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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 9:41pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Chrissy
When we went to our parentcraft classes the midwife there said there was no way i would be allowed to have a back to back baby born at home


And if there was good clinical reason why that should be the case then fine, but a OP baby does not mean a dangerous delivery or a more likely nee dfor intervention. In fact a mobile, comfortable mum in her own surroundings is less likely to need as much pain relief and, because she is mobile, her baby is more likely to turn round.





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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 9:48pm

There isn't any reason why a simple OP presentation shouldn't deliver at home. Yes, as has been mentioned it "can" cause a more painful prolonged labour, BUT an experienced midwife can manage this at home. It alone is not an indicator not to have a home birth.





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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 9:49pm

Actually reading this, I only had paracetamol once until they induced me (so over 24 hours in labour) and was fine wandering about the joy that is hope hospital!! And I bet compared to me, Mrs J looks like a complete hero! The problems started for me too with the induction and epidural and went on from there...

The main thing for me was the tiredness (and I know you've been having problems sleeping on a night)! Try to get kip wherever and whenever you can (whilst doing your headstand maybe :snigger:). That alone, in my opinion, will stand you in a lot better position, let alone everything else you have!
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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 9:55pm

I'm hoping (as you say) that because I have no experience to compare it against, I won't know whether the labour is more painful than it would have been. It will be my labour and I won't know any difference. I suppose it worries me a bit that they might be more hasty to transfer me if I am slower to progress than normal (whatever normal is!) because of this.

Just spent the last half hour bent on all four over my ball and am now sitting on it rather than on the sofa so this baby better be paying attention!

Does anyone know if anything such as reflexology or accupuncture might help? I know about moxibustion (sp) for breech babies but presume that isn't applicable to this?

ETS yes sleep is still an issue P - wonder if I can fall asleep on all fours ?!?

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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 10:01pm

Quoted

Originally posted by bubble
ETS yes sleep is still an issue P - wonder if I can fall asleep on all fours ?!?


Yes it is entirely possible and no doubt once bubs arrives you will be able to sleep on all fours, on the washing line, in a thunder storm! However, having the ability is not the same as the having the opportunity!

Sorry for being flippant, I dont' know about reflexology/accupuncture but it seems like the kind of thing that would. I think you would be best contacting a qualified practitioner.





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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 10:03pm

Quoted

Originally posted by mrsjasper
Yes it is entirely possible and no doubt once bubs arrives you will be able to sleep on all fours, on the washing line, in a thunder storm! However, having the ability is not the same as the having the opportunity!



:snigger: And you're about to do it all again!

Will check out some practioners tomorrow. Got to be worth a try!

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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 10:07pm

I'm not aware of any eclinical evidence to suggest that either reflexology or acupuncture can help turn the fetus.
However there is anecdotal evidence that bothe reflexology and aromatherpay can help relax mother both antenataly and in labour, and as you know a relaxed mother is calmer, less tense and subsequently more pain tolerant. Therefore it makes sense then that if you're relaxed then they may be more room for the fetus to turn.





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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 10:12pm

I can only go by what the midwives and my sil told me Bubble, like you say we have nothing to compare it against!

I only hope that we both get the homebirths we want! :happy:

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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 10:12pm

I read somewhere about sleeping on your tummy supported by pillows (sorry no pics though so I'm not sure how to interpret it!), more or less all fours, or maybe you can sleep 'over' your DH lol, use him as a support?
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Wednesday, January 28th 2009, 10:22pm

Quoted

Originally posted by mrsjasper
You are better prepared thn anyone I have ever known and have all the self hypnosis and yoga skills to help you cope. Its not too late for your baby to turn round, but even if he/she doesn't, it will still be a great birth.



I'm not very good at accepting compliments which is why I glossed over this before - but thank you :O

Chrissy - I hope so too :D - and our kitchen floors will be clean!

P - yes, I read that - but have not seen a picture to work out how they actually suggest doing it but I'll give it a go.

Thanks Rose. I think spending so much of my time on all fours means a relaxing session of something is going to be essential!

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Thursday, January 29th 2009, 7:04am

Quoted

Originally posted by bubble

Quoted

Originally posted by mrsjasper
Yes it is entirely possible and no doubt once bubs arrives you will be able to sleep on all fours, on the washing line, in a thunder storm! However, having the ability is not the same as the having the opportunity!



:snigger: And you're about to do it all again!


And that means that either I'm crazy, or its not all that bad!





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Thursday, January 29th 2009, 9:09am

I very nearly fell asleep on all fours a few days ago, on the sofa propped up with loads of pillows - sure i would have fallen off if i had! :8o:
Would a pregnancy massage help Bubble? If nothing else, you would at least get to be on your front for an hour (on one of those lovely tables with a hole for bump) and would almost certainly get a good nights sleep afterwards!




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Thursday, January 29th 2009, 12:27pm

My first baby was OP and yes I did have a long and difficult labour ending in Ventouse. BUT I was 16, didn't really know he was OP beforehand, and didn't know there were things I could have done to make things easier for myself.

I have since read that OP babies are more common in this modern age, because us ladies don't spend much time on our hands and knees scrubbing the floors, front steps etc etc. Basically we are a bunch of soft lardy lazy moos!

I would defo recommend getting on all fours as much as poss, drape yourself over a footstool or birthing ball, make yourself comfy and read a magazine for a while, as often as you can for as long as you can.

OP babies do still engage and as you are 4/5 already that shouldn't be an issue. Also getting your butt up in the air higher than your hips could help too, sort of all fours position, but get down low on your elbows and fore-arms and stick your derrier in the air. All very undignified, but hey, you are gonna be baring your ladybits to all and sundry anyway!

With regard to labour if bubs is still the wrong way round, hip rotations can help with back pain, and can also coax junior into a more natural position. Heat on your back in the form of a hot water bottle can help greatly with any back pain you might get through labour. If you are using a birth pool, then take the hot water bottle in with you cos it's temp will be warmer than the pool and you will really feel the benefit.

Apart from all this though, you may find that you have a problem free delivery, it goes without saying that every labour and delivery is different for different women. Don't go into it thinking it'll be awful cos that will just make you tense. Go into it with a positive open mind and that above all else will help you along.
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Thursday, January 29th 2009, 2:22pm

Michelle - they don't have those lovely tables in any of the salons round here :sadface: But I have booked an appointment with a reflexologist/aromatherapist tomorrow and she seemed really nice and helpful on the phone and says that she works on such things quite regularly so it's got to be worth a try.

Mrs S - thanks for those tips. You're right, I need to remain positive. I was so calm and confident before and I know I can get that back :D

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Friday, January 30th 2009, 5:30pm

Well I had some reflexology this morning and she worked a lot on the areas which are linked to the uterus and the pituary glands. She also did some acupressure on the points on my little toes which they stimulate when doing moxibustion and gave me a homopathic remedy which I have to take twice a day. I've booked in again for next week and the week after. If I do go overdue she'll use the last session as one 'priming' me for labour and if I have baby before then then we're going to use the session at some point in the future for a session for both me and baby together :D

I know that it can't work by itself but at least with that and all the other stuff I'm doing then at least I'll have given it my best shot.

I've also read some lovely stories about successful homebirths with OP and other awkwardly positioning babies which has helped restore my positivity! :D

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




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Friday, January 30th 2009, 5:34pm

Awwww that's good! I think it's all going to be fantastic :smile:




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Friday, January 30th 2009, 5:51pm

Hi Bubble

I haven't read all the responses here so forgive me if I'm repeating anything but I remember Bells offering Alie some advice on this .

xx


Quoted

Originally posted by Bells

Quoted

Originally posted by alie Baby still not engaging and is OP (back to back)!!!!!!! Anyone got good ideas for turning baby - I know about being on all fours, but carn't live like that 24/7 :snigger:

XXXX


This is essential reading (from a homebirth site but don't be put off). I cannot stress enough how important it is to get baby into a good position and how important it is for you to understand why that should be. In short, it may mean the difference between an 8 hour uncomplicated labour and a 24 hour painful and difficult labour. It's worth reading a couple of times.


http://www.homebirth.org.uk/ofp.htm

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Monday, February 23rd 2009, 12:26pm

hello!

My daughter was born this way....they didnt realise she was back to back till she was crowning!

I was in hospital for two days + in labour, didnt feel too much pain as I was plugged in to an epidural for 16 hours (because I am a wimp).

I was also being induced with a drip. Dialation was so slow and they threatened me with a c cection if I didnt dialate after 48 hours.

Eventually last stage labour was quick but I needed an episiotomy to help her come out due to her position.

They were all completely mystifiyed including me why it was taking so long...until she crowned and then the penny dropped for all!

I just think back to back makes things progress much much slower...hope she turns soon.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "poddy" (Feb 23rd 2009, 12:30pm)





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