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  • "tinkerbell" started this thread

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Friday, April 7th 2006, 9:04am

Natural vs Elective Caesarian

Hi Girls

Some open discussion would be greatly appreciated in this area for me. I am 43 years old and will be pretty much 44 by the time pip is due. I am extremely small hipped and as one of my very good friends put it...things rarely go 'straight forward' for me. I am just going into my 12th week of pregnancy and as I cannot secure guaranteed consultative care at any local NHS hospital have accpeted the need to go private. Given that we have spent 8 years TTC and this baby has already cost us a small fortune this is not an issue and we will meet the costs however. I live in Essex and it would appear that there are no consultants attached to any local hospital in Essex or the surrounding counties (including Rosies at Addenbrookes in Cambridge...amazingly!!)that will work privately whcih means I will need to go into London. Apparantly due to demand consultants are getting fully booked so quickly that I need to start making my decision pretty much now!!!

In an ideal world I would love to have a nutaral birth but I do have some major concerns...my age, the fact that i am IVF and have been on some serious medication to keep the baby and prevent miscarriage, I am a very small person and the chances of vaginal/rectal injury is likely to be high, I will need to go to London and that can take anything from 1.5 to 3 hours travel time depending upon traffic. But a C section is major abdominal surgery and should not be chosen lightly.

I have narrowed my choice of hospitals down to 2, St Johns and Elizabeths if natural and St marys if EC. The problem is that they do not have 'shared' approved consultants so I have to make the choice of natural vs EC very early or accept that I just go to St Marys (which doesnt offer the whole holistic natural birth approach in complement to with more standard natural methods).

I wuill obviuosly wait until post Nuchal fold before doing anything , but the decision weighs heavily on me and it would be good to hear if anyone else has similar concerns and choices.

xx




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Friday, April 7th 2006, 10:08am

It might be worth you having a read through the birth stories. I myself have three on there - two c-sections and one vbac.

Best of luck!
x

ashleyh

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Friday, April 7th 2006, 2:26pm

Dear |Tinkerbell,
I am now 29 weeks pregnant, and have to make a similar decision-but on the NHS. Do you know that you can request consultant-led care on the NHS, and if you tell him your concerns, especially since you have had ivf etc, he may well offer to do the elective C/S himself.
It is definitely worth asking the midwife for a referral NOW to the consultant at your local hospital, and if it works out, great, then he will know and help you in an emergency, rather than having a long drive etc. They cannot REFUSE you a C/S on NHS, but can strongly discourage you. If you get too much flak, you still have the option of private(set it up now, but dont pay all yet!)

I am waiting longer to see what I do, I am hoping the baby will choose, if all well,we will try natural, if not(eg breech, very big baby)then will stick with the C/s. I am also totally terrified of losing this baby at delivery, or of having a trauma that hurts the baby. I wish there was some guarantee of a safe, healthy baby, but there is none, no matter what you choose.
Dont feel pressured into any decision-this is your baby, and your body, and you have to live with your choice. I totally admire these wonderful ladies and their brave and beautiful births, but each pregnancy is different, each mom is different, and I wish you all the best!
Ashley
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Friday, April 7th 2006, 2:52pm

Hi Tinkerbell

That doesn't sound like an easy decision.

This is only an anecdote, but I'll share it with you. About 20 years ago (gosh I sound old!), I had to have an injection into my hip joint to relieve some swelling. The consultant who did it could only judge where to put the needle by looking at various landmarks such as my hips. I was only about 19 at the time, and he made a comment, but obviously meant it seriously. He said "oh, you'll have fun with childbirth - your hips are really narrow". I've never forgotten that, even though having a baby was the furthest thing from my mind back then.

Anyway, I had my first baby when I was nearly 37 and had a completely natural delivery without any intervention of any sort - my hips did the job perfectly. I turned 39 last week and I'm due for my second in a few weeks' time, and I'm still aiming for the natural method. I know what you mean about IVF making precious babies - if anything were to go wrong this time, there would probably never be another chance for me.

Have you had a doctor comment on your size? A friend's opinion on things going wrong is not enough evidence in my mind! However, you have to feel comfortable with your decision, so try to get as many questions answered as possible in the meantime.

Ashley - good to hear from you. Glad to hear that all is well. Hope you're feeling good too.

Limpet
Had a total of three fresh IVF cycles and three frozen transfers (embryos and blastocysts)
m/c @ 11 weeks in 2007 DS1 and DS2 born from fresh IVF cycles :D
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  • "tinkerbell" started this thread

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Friday, April 7th 2006, 4:13pm

HI Girls

THanks for this......Ashley its good to hear from someone who is facing a similar decision and what you say makes much sense only my hospital will not do elective c section. I have an extra long session booked with my NHS consultant on the 25th, I have already had a long discussion with the head midwife and she fully understands the issue on wanting consultative care but I havent broached the C section issue as they are very much against them and she has already said that they will only do them for medical reasons.

Tx for the advice Limpet I will get my 'size' checked out by my consultant when I see him on the 25th and discuss all these issues with him. It would be lovely to have one of these nice natural births but this will be my one chance and I do not want to spend my life regretting the decision I take be it C section or natural........the difficult thing is that if I go privately to get the hospitals of choice for either one means different consultants and comitting earlier than most would be comfortable....ho hum so not easy




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Saturday, April 8th 2006, 7:36am

Quoted

Originally posted by tinkerbell

It would be lovely to have one of these nice natural births


LOL, I want one too!





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Saturday, April 8th 2006, 10:27am

I have to say, whilst I really wanted a natural pregnancy, I ended up having an em-c-section, and it really was for the best for me and my baby. I dont for one second regret the decision or the need to go for a c-section. I dont feel a "failure" or less of a mother for having had a c-section.

ps tinks - I thought there was a private hospital in Cambridge apart from Rosies at Addenbrookes? If I remember correctly it is along the A10 in Trumpington/Cambridge and therefore not that far from Addenbrookes.

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Saturday, April 8th 2006, 2:49pm

HI Sunshine

Unfortunately most private hospitals dont actually have maternity services.......its amazing that to get guaranteed consultative treatment i have to go all the way to London...but its true!!

I think when you have to have a C section for emergency reasons then thats absolutely the right decision...Im def not one of those who believes that the whole birthing experience is based on which birthing method...its choosing the right one for the right person..whatever I do i will have meds....quite frankly each to their own but i see no point in pain for pains sake so long as baby isnt affected and with mobile epidurals the baby is no longer affected.......similarily I really do believe that what is less stressful for mum is generally going to be less stressful for baby..its just making that judgement call.

xx




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Saturday, April 8th 2006, 6:25pm

Tinker, myh friend had her planned C section at the Portland in London. This cost a whopping 14.000 pounds. A normal birth at the portland is around 5000.

I am lucky to have a friend being a private OC/GYN so she looks after me at a NHS hospital and I am booked in there but I have the option of booking myself into the Portland if I would feel the need later on.

Could you phone around and let them know how you are feeling and ask them for their professional opinion?

My consultant is really working to make women try have natural births birth first since it is harder to recover from a ccesarian afterwards... (she has got narrow narrow hips and 3 kids)

Wella
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MC one twin at 6 weeks
DS born in Oct 2006
BF DS 10 months 3 weeks and 5 days
FET 11/07, ICSI 12/07 (ABANDONED), ICSI 2/08, IUI 5/08 - BFN
Clomid IUI 7/08 BFP MC a twin... again :(


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Saturday, April 8th 2006, 8:21pm

Hi Wella

Tx for this........I thought about The Portland as a couple of my freinds went there but the only benefit there over St Marys or St Johns and ELizabeths is the standard of food and rooms which are both of very secondary concern to me, St Johns and ELizabeths specialises in natural births and whilst being more expensive than St MArys is marginally cheaper than The Portland, only St Marys has an ICU and though the private facilites are much simpler the emergency and critical facilites are much better as they are an NHS hospital, I would only really consider an Elective C section at St Marys because of its ICU facilites for both baby and me. You are very lucky to have a freind to see you through the birth personally.......

By the way Wella another one of my freinds has just had an elective c section at St Marys and including her consultant fees it cost around £9000.

I am going to organise an appointment with the consultant she used and discuss my concerns with him as well as my NHS consultant then hopefully I should get a more balanced view.

x




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Saturday, April 8th 2006, 9:09pm

Hi, Ladies
Just to put in my 2cents worth on this subject:

1) It is not the external measurement of the pelvis/hips that indicate wether you can have a natural birth or not, but the internal measurements

2) I have a very good friend who has the widest set of hips, but she has a very small internal measurement and has to have a C-section

3) My cousin who is petite in build - 5 foot 1 and weighs about as much as a wet dishcloth with very narrow hips pushed out a 7lb2oz baby with no trouble just a few days ago (lucky girl)

4) In the end it will boil down to personal choice whether you have a secion or a normal birth. For my own part I would certainly like to try natures method first.


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Saturday, April 8th 2006, 9:20pm

Gosh tinkerbell, you really are expecting the worst aren't you ?(

I do understand that your baby is very precious and you want to do everything in your power to ensure that you and your baby are both safe but choosing a place to give birth for their intensive care facilities is a touch on the pessimistic side considering that you've not been told that you are likely to have any problems.





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Sunday, April 9th 2006, 8:51am

Well Bells.......if I am going to go private then I want to have the best facilites available and esp if I finally decide to choose a c section....dont forget that on NHS when you have a c sectrion its automatically in a hospital with ICU...if I choose natural then the need for ICU is not really part of the decision making process....thus you will see that my first choice hospital for a natural birth does not have an ICU unit only my choice for a c section...now you may call that pessimistic I call it being sensible as such an operation is major surgery and should not be taken lightly......personally I dont believe there will be any need for it but rather than have me or my baby flying through the streets of London in an emergency (god forbid) for the sake of a posh room I think effective choice up front always minimises risk.....Im sure the family of the poor woman who lost her life following a c section at The Portland a few years ago would agree...it was their neglectful care that contributed to her death. Im sure they have sorted out their systems since then but give me an NHS hospital for major surgery any day.




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Sunday, April 9th 2006, 10:10am

Tinker, her placenta was placed over the cevix so that might have had something to do with the cost...

Also, she is a complete sloaney so she might have ordered a few cases of champagne up to her suite :)

// Wella
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MC one twin at 6 weeks
DS born in Oct 2006
BF DS 10 months 3 weeks and 5 days
FET 11/07, ICSI 12/07 (ABANDONED), ICSI 2/08, IUI 5/08 - BFN
Clomid IUI 7/08 BFP MC a twin... again :(


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Sunday, April 9th 2006, 7:30pm

Tinks,
You might find this link useful
http://csections.org/





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Sunday, April 9th 2006, 8:03pm

Mrs Jasper...this is great thanks so much...very helpful


Torisen...mmmm The Portland is suddenly sounding sooo much more attractive...hadnt considered the champagne options...how remiss of me!!!!

xx




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Sunday, April 9th 2006, 8:51pm

I had a quick look myself Tinkerbell. It seemed to be really good.

I'm packing Champers in my hospital bag. In fact maybe I'll just pack Champers and nothing else. Do the bubbles count as gas & air?





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Monday, April 10th 2006, 4:53am

Hi Mrs J

Had an opportunity to read the site properly now...its excellent and probably one which anyone who wants to be informed generally should read...certainly those who are a little judgemental would benefit greatly from it...what I couldnt believe was that 31 % of female obs in London hospitals and 46% in the USA would opt for an elective c section if the pregnancy was uncomplicated with no medical indications whereas 95% of midwives would opt for natura...sums it all up really doesnt itl! But the page that is really good is the one that shows the +ve's and -ve's of both methods....for those of you who are interested the link is:

http://www.csections.org/versus.php

Im with you on the champers.....Im not fussed about the food or general alcohol limitations for the duration but oh am I missing my fizz and summer without the odd jug of Pimms just wont be the same!!!! I reckon that an IV of fizz would work very nicely!!!!!

xx




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Monday, April 10th 2006, 7:14am

Tinkerbell,
I suspect the reason more doctors think csections are safer is because they deal with more complicated births.

This summer I am really looking orward to sitting on my patio (when its been built!) and drinking a nice cold pint of shandy. Listen to me, you wouldn't believe how many summers I've spent wishing I wasn't allowed to drink!





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Monday, April 10th 2006, 7:25am

Mrs J

I know hon...we all have I guess.....as much as I wouldnt change it for the world I still wish I could ahve a few Pimms. Im sure further down the line the odd weak one will be ok .......will need to wait for the fizz tho..........

You're only a couple weeks ahead of me (Im in my 12th week) so we'll having babies at similar times....god willing!!

Are you having a nuchal...mine is booked for the 19th and I cant say Im looking forward to it as the stats are a bit worrying for my age tho I am hoping and looking forward to a clear result and post nuchal delirium

xx




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Monday, April 10th 2006, 10:00am

as I said before, I'm glad I had the c-section. they discovered and cleaned up my endo. they also found that the amniotic sac had burst (without me noticing) and was leaking, and that the placenta was failing. also DS had the umbilical cord wrapped around his neck twice. as I was having the c-section the anaesthetist reassured me when the doctors & nurses started talking rapidly in Malay (their language) by telling me that they were very relieved that it was not a vaginal delivery. later on I found out they were relieved because DS most likely would have died if it had been a vaginal delivery because of all the unsuspected complications.

that's not to say that this will happen to anyone else, but since I've had my experience, from being dead against elective c-sections, I now think they have their place. if I am lucky enough to conceive & carry a 2nd child I will not be going through VBAC, but will choose to have another c-section.

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Monday, April 10th 2006, 10:05am

Sunshine

What a nightmare...no wonder you were pleased you went for an elective c section. DId they find all that out once they had gone in or was your decision to go for an elective based on advice from your consultant and prior knowledge of any of the issues in advance.

You were a VERY lucky girl and I certainly would choose a c section in future in your shoes


xx




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Monday, April 10th 2006, 10:29am

they found it all out after they went in. 8o

i went to be induced for a natural birth on the saturday because I was getting contractions but not feeling them (only seen on the machine) and the baby's heartbeat was irregular and the movements reducing day by day.

by monday after 3 tries of induction I still hadnt dilated and they thought the cervix might be blocked by fibres. (during my IVF treatment the cons actually had difficulty cos my cervix opening was so small).

tuesday I spent at home

wednesday they decided (with my agreement) to get DS out of there by c-section.

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Monday, April 10th 2006, 10:50am

OMG scary stuff for you....so glad it all went well in the end.....what about recovery how has that been?

xx




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Monday, April 10th 2006, 12:19pm

not too bad actually

i was up and about and moving after 24 hours, at least to go for a pee, and moving more easily after 48 hours.

it took about two weeks to easily get in and out of bed, or transition from lying down to sitting or sitting to standing

because of the climate here, it took around 6 weeks for the scar to fully heal. it still looks red, but it is clean & dry & healed. no stiches as "invisible stiching" - just the line of the scar. done by a female OBGYN and inside the hairline, so shouldnt show too much in a few months

it was sore and hurt for a while, but more of an ache hurt, and only painful when DS had a screaming kicking hissy fit in his first few weeks and would kick the scar/wound

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Monday, April 10th 2006, 12:25pm

Excellent....sounds like you had the best result you could have had all round given the circumstances. THey say that vit. e oil is really good for scars and rosehip oil too..if you can get hold of those over there Im sure they'll help with the redness.

xxxx




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Monday, April 10th 2006, 2:15pm

Tinkerbell,
I'm at the mercy of the NHS. My next scan is at 20 weeks. I suppose they'll do nuchal transluceny then but its not been mentioned. I think I've pretty much decided I don't want any of the tests where they give you a %age risk of certain things. Its still only a risk and unless you have amniocentesis or CVS testing, they can't say if its your baby. I'd rather live with the very small risk of a baby with say Downs syndrome, then the higher risk of miscarriage if I have the tests. Having said that, I'm 33 and the risks are slighly lower for me than they are for you. Not sure what I'd do in your situation.





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Monday, April 10th 2006, 2:25pm

Hi Mrs J

Yes its very difficult but me and hubs have decided that we really couldnt cope with a disabled child and so we will be having the tests etc. I can fully understand your position and one of my good friends took exactly the same approach at your age, just as I think I would cos the risks are significantly lower. The nuchal can only be done between weeks 10 and 14, you could have the blood tests if you really wanted them but from what you say theres not much point. I wish you much luck but your 20 weeks should show up quite a lot.

xx




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Tuesday, April 11th 2006, 2:49am

just to let you know gals, a friend of ours (yea, a real friend rather than "friend of a friend") has the nuchal test on their daughter, and as the mum was 39 and the test looked uncertain they had the blood test, which indicated a risk. they then had amnio which indicated a risk. they decided to keep the baby anyway, even though they had chosen amnio with the risk of miscarriage. their little girl was born fit and healthy.

the tests really arent 100% accurate.

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Tuesday, April 11th 2006, 5:26am

Tx Sunshine...its always a worry as tests are never 100% accurate and I guess if a disbled child is something as couple you both feel you can cope with and want it is most definately worth the risk...thats fab news about your friend s they must be over the moon, do you know what her risk rating was? I so wish I was one of those people who could be strong enough to face a downs syndrome child positively but unfortunately neither of us believes its what we want in our lives and DH feels very strongly about it. At least we will have the option of the CVS which is over 99% accurate...more so than the amnio. Fingers crossed that our risk is low and no serious decisions will need to be considered. A week tomorrow.......such a worrying time.

xx




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Tuesday, April 11th 2006, 7:11am

Actually Tink, I think few of us are honest enought to admit we couldn't cope with a disabled child. I think its much better not to bring a child into the world if you're not certain you can provide the life they need.





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Tuesday, April 11th 2006, 9:04am

hi tinkerbell- i think you really need to get yourself assessed before making any descions reagarding an elective cs. Just because you are petite does not mean you cannot deliver vaginally. A cs IS major surgery as you said, and tis not without it's risks. it would be a real shame to go through the trauma of this without knowing if it were really necessary.
You need to speak to your consultant.





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Thursday, May 4th 2006, 7:36am

HI Nikki

My NHS consultant refused to 'assess' me on the basis that he wouldnt be able to determine anything..have now got a private consultant in London....only way I can guarantee that I can have the same consultant at the birth, NHS say it could be anyone....dont fancy having someone Ive never met there esp as they would only be called because of complications and the first he would see of my history would be just before he saw me in an emergancy situation....in fact its the only way I can guarantee a consultant at the birth at all...lucky we can manage to afford it!!

xxx




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Thursday, May 4th 2006, 12:02pm

...... I'm a bit confused as to why you are so concerned about having a consultant present at the birth. Consultants don't attend as many births as midwives, they are not as skilled as midwives, they often ask midwives for advice during births, many are trained in delivery practices by midwives and consultant led births present statistical increases in mortality rates.

I know that everyone's different and that you feel reassured that you are spending your money on the best care for you and if there was a problem with your pregnancy which indicated that you were likely to need high levels of intensive care, I would be inclined to agree that paying for a consultant would be in the interests of you and your baby but I stand by my view that you would be much 'safer' aiming for a non instrumental/surgical delivery with an experienced midwife. The likes of which can be 'bought' (Davina McCall pays for her midwife) and offer better care IMO than a consultant.





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Thursday, May 4th 2006, 6:43pm

HI Bells

I guess everyone feels differently about these things but that doesnt devalue each individuals decisions or choices...I will also have midwives at the birth (St Johns and Elisabeths is famous for natural births, offering holistic approaches alongside standard medical care and offering doulas alongside midwives and consultants...they all work together as a team) but interestingly all hospitals insist on someone with an IVF baby and at my age be under consultative care its just that the NHS dont provide continious consultative care......my local hospital midwives are pretty much against c sections and if I have a difficult time am knackered and decide I dont want to continue with the labour then its my decision and not theirs (they will only give a c section on medical grounds and will only call in a consultant if they deem it nec) and my consultant will be there to deal with it not a stranger who happens to be on call, Ive never met before and has only had a limited time to familiarise himself with my case notes and treatment history..remember I am still on drugs for this pregnancy

Some believe that midwives only are best and for them clearly they are and I respect that, just as I respect those who want a birth without pain relief albeit its not nec my preference. If I was 10 years younger and had conceived without experimental IVF drug treatment then so would I. For me however and many other women who like me are fortunate to be able to have all options open to them, the ideal is to have both there at the birth and thats what I'll be securing...the best of both worlds. Interestingly whilst 95% of midwives would opt for a nautarl birth, 35% of female obs in London and 45% in the States would opt for a c section for non medical reasons which makes me think that surgical intervention whilst it has its dangers (just like natural childbirth) is not nec as heinous as its sometimes made out to be. Personally Im open to both.....natural (with pain relief) and a c section.....and I'll have the support on hand for both.

THe cost of this is academic and less than the cost of actually getting pregnant ...after 8 years of trying and a great deal of stress heartbreak and tears along the way I am lucky enough to ensure I have all areas covered to give me and my DH the reassurance we need that we have the best hands available to us when we need them, be that a doula, midwife or consultant.


xxxx

xxx



This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "tinkerbell" (May 4th 2006, 6:45pm)


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Friday, May 5th 2006, 7:56am

Can i just add to what bells has said?
even though you may be paying for private care(and i appreciate your reasons for this) you need to be aware that if evryhting goes to plan- and there is no reason why it shouldn't- then the ONLY people in your delivery room will be midwives. Midwives are the ONLY professional people trained in normal births. the medical team are trained in abnormality (even in private medicine).
Although you have conceived through ivf, once pregnant yuor pregnancy is much like anyone elses (albiet very very precious), but physically no different and as such will be managed as if you have conceived naturally.
Of course your consultant will be on hand SHOULD any probs arise, but is unlikely to be there throughout.

xx





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Friday, May 5th 2006, 11:42am

Hi Nikki

My consultant def delivers the baby along with the midwives...she specialises in natural births but does c sections too......I think all the consultants deliver when you are on consultant led care, my friends consultants certainly did too. I checked this in advance.


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Friday, May 5th 2006, 12:07pm

Sorry to be a pain Tinkerbell, but can i clarify that certainly in the NHS, consultants DO NOT deliver ladies who are having normal deliveries, even if they are booked under consultant care, and i would be very surpirised if this happens in private practice either. The consultant will certainly be on hand, but 70% of births are deliverd by midiwives.
Normal deliveries are not the remit of any doctor. Consultant or not.





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Friday, May 5th 2006, 12:07pm

I typed a long reply to you last night but I wiped it off by accident :rolleyes:


I'm genuinely fascinated about how you have come to your decisions as you have probably guessed that I believe firmly that it is safer to have a natural birth than a surgical one and it is better to have as little intervention as possible. I also believe that midwives are generally better trained than consultants in delivering babies in fact, consultants are equal or below midwives in the pecking order when it comes to 'normal' deliveries .

It's interesting for me to read your reasonings as I've never met/spoken to anyone with your views apart from watching programmes based in America where women generally go into hospital for a medicalised birth and where it is deemed necessary for each women to have a doctor and pain relief for each baby.

I do respect your decisions and preferences, I'm just trying to understand how you came to those decisions and preferences. For instance you are concerned about the safety of your baby during birth but choose to have total pain relief which is proven to lead to intervention which is proven to lead to baby getting distressed. Those are the things that I find it difficult to understand. Not that I disagree with your choices but that I find them difficult to comprehend when it's looked at from the perspective of 'safety'.

This sounds very harsh and I'm not trying to sound provocotive but I have to say that the the facts are that for 'normal' pregnancies the 'safest' delivery is natural childbirth without intervention of any kind and I just cannot understand why anyone who is as concerned as you are with the safety of their baby would put their own preference of a pain free birth above that issue of safety. From everything you have said, there is still no indication that you are anything other than 'normal' despite the fact that you are slightly older, have had IVF and have slim hips.

I do hope that this isn't taken as a criticism of your choices, I AM genuinely intruiged as to how your decisions came about.





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Friday, May 5th 2006, 12:11pm

think i cross posted with you Bells!

I've just re-read what i've witten and feel it sounds a bit harsh and rude-i don't mean to come across that way, sorry.





Torisen

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Friday, May 5th 2006, 12:18pm

My consultant delivers ALL the babies in the private practice together with her 2 partners but only does the complicated ones at the NHS hospital.
She has the lowest C-section rate at the London hospitals. (lowest of who I don't know)
ICSI Jan 2006 - BFP
MC one twin at 6 weeks
DS born in Oct 2006
BF DS 10 months 3 weeks and 5 days
FET 11/07, ICSI 12/07 (ABANDONED), ICSI 2/08, IUI 5/08 - BFN
Clomid IUI 7/08 BFP MC a twin... again :(


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Friday, May 5th 2006, 12:27pm

Do they have midwives that work there?





Torisen

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Friday, May 5th 2006, 12:28pm

at the NHS hospital I sure hope so :P

I am sure they do privatly since there might be more than one lady at the same day and only one consultant :)
ICSI Jan 2006 - BFP
MC one twin at 6 weeks
DS born in Oct 2006
BF DS 10 months 3 weeks and 5 days
FET 11/07, ICSI 12/07 (ABANDONED), ICSI 2/08, IUI 5/08 - BFN
Clomid IUI 7/08 BFP MC a twin... again :(


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Friday, May 5th 2006, 12:31pm

Surely that means then that some ladies will still be delivered by midwives( at the private hosp i mean) if more than one lady is in labour at once?





Torisen

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Friday, May 5th 2006, 12:33pm

I am just saying that they do not just do the complications.
She told me that if I decide to have mine at the NHS hospital she will go there and gently push the midwife to the side and if I have it at the private hospital I will have her or one of the partners...

(i'll let you know in Oct)
ICSI Jan 2006 - BFP
MC one twin at 6 weeks
DS born in Oct 2006
BF DS 10 months 3 weeks and 5 days
FET 11/07, ICSI 12/07 (ABANDONED), ICSI 2/08, IUI 5/08 - BFN
Clomid IUI 7/08 BFP MC a twin... again :(

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Torisen" (May 5th 2006, 12:33pm)


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Friday, May 5th 2006, 12:39pm

Well i know that i certainly wouldn't let any consultant "push me to the side" if i were your midwife.





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Friday, May 5th 2006, 12:53pm

HI GIrls

Nikki my consultant def delivers I checked on that..its true what you say about the NHS thats why Im going private to ensure the best of both worlds...midwives and consultant. To ensure theycan personally handle all dleiveries they only book a limited number of private patients and in emergencines they get one of their partners to cover.


Bells......neither of the consultants Ive spoken to have said that pain relief causes an increase in intervention...in fact they confirmed that in some cases excess stress on the mother through a difficult birth can cause its own problems and pain relief can therfore ease the birth process...I will only take pain relief if the pain is too much...other wise it will be natural or c section...I am concerned with whatever is best for me and baby and am open minded to which birth method I ultimately choose....I will however not put myself under undue stress to have a 'natural pain relief free birth' or even to have a natural birth......I will however ensure that I choose (with the advice of my specialist) what is best for baby and me.

Wella...where abouts will you give birth if you go private in the end?

xx




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Friday, May 5th 2006, 1:13pm

Quoted

Originally posted by tinkerbell
Bells......neither of the consultants Ive spoken to have said that pain relief causes an increase in intervention...


Then they are not giving you the correct information or the opportunity to make an informed choice.

Pain relief reduces mobility, reduced mobility slows labour and slow labour leads to intervention. Even 'mobile' epidurals do not allow your body to recognise sensations which would otherwise encourage you into good positions. You do need to be monitored after having pain relief and monitoring involves remaining immobile at least for a period of time.

The 'cascade of intervention' relates to ladies having just one intervention in the form of induction, augmentation or pain relief as each intervention leads to another essential intervention such as monitoring, immobility and further augmentation leading to more pain relief.

Quoted

in fact they confirmed that in some cases excess stress on the mother through a difficult birth can cause its own problems and pain relief can therfore ease the birth process...


That's the important part. During a 'difficult' birth pain relief can be very relaxing and allow a woman to open up and let go. During a normal birth where a woman would otherwise be mobile and aware of sensation it can and does slow proceedings down.


There is nothing to suggest that you are going to have anything other than a normal birth although I do understand your need to cover all of yoru bases.

I think you would benefit from finding out the physiology behind labour and birth with a view to understanding why certain things 'go wrong' in the labour and delivery room. It may put your mind at rest.





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Friday, May 5th 2006, 1:26pm

Thanks Bells I hear what you are saying and will bring into play in my discussions but ultimately I am happy to trust the consultant and midwives to know what will be best for me personally once theyve spent some time with me and to talk through the relevant issues in detail...the one thing I know for sure is that there is no hidden cost agenda for them as there is on the NHS, my consultant is a flat rate whatever birth method i choose. At this point I am still securing my hospital and the birth method will now come later given I cant go to St Marys or CHelsea and Westminster. THere are may things to consider first and pip needs to develop a bit more all that matter to me at this stage is that I have a good consultant and a hospital Im happy with, the first is secured and the second almost but I need to make the visit this weekend to see that I am 100% comfortable.


xxxx




Torisen

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Friday, May 5th 2006, 1:48pm

Tinker, portland

nikki, they have a VERY good relationship... The lady doing my scans could not stop raving about my consultant delivering her two babies and even though I saw both a midwife and the consultant on my last visit I only have the contact details of the consultant since she is my first point of contact.
Is that wrong??
ICSI Jan 2006 - BFP
MC one twin at 6 weeks
DS born in Oct 2006
BF DS 10 months 3 weeks and 5 days
FET 11/07, ICSI 12/07 (ABANDONED), ICSI 2/08, IUI 5/08 - BFN
Clomid IUI 7/08 BFP MC a twin... again :(





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